How does OpenCPN compare to B&G, Raymarine and Garmin ? New boat install ?

[sailingharry]

I just read through most of this thread. I came away with a couple of thoughts.

First, there seems to be a lot of people comparing open CPN on a laptop to a $10 to $15,000 instrument package. That instrument package is a whole lot more than a chartplotter! It has a $300 depth speed sensor, a 500 to $1,000 wind sensor, an autopilot system, etc.

Of special note in addition to an MFD are the data displays typically on the back of the cabin top. Holding an iPhone or looking at your chart plotter to get wind speed and direction, depth, boat speed etc fails horribly to a single glance at the cabin side. Or better yet, mounted on the mast below the boom. That's another $1 to $2,000 in equipment.

Most instrument systems are installed. Not sitting at the nav station. That installation costs a lot of money! Wires are run, fittings are connected, brackets are purchased. Just a pod at the nav station can be several hundred dollars.

You can't compare open CPN on an old laptop with a GPS dongle to a $15,000 instrument system, that's apples to oranges. And you can't compare to a 100% DIY system, which is what I would do even if I was buying commercial equipment, to a 100% turnkey package.

To fairly compare it, you would either have to dumb down the instrument package or ramp up the do-it-yourself system. Even pypilot, a slick and free autopilot that gets installed on less than $100 worth of hardware still requires $1,000 ram to be added.

A more accurate comparison to OpenCPN on a tablet is a $500 Garmin plotter on a swing arm at the helm.

[howlingengines]

A lot of the arguments seem to be about the pre-existing equipment ( transducers , etc) .
I would assume that these are already in place with the supporting network , actuators and so on.
In terms of the plotter with OpenCPN , how about :-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224208402...0AAOSwvltfjX2j
The fully ruggedised MIL-STD-810G Getac B300 for around £475 - probably same in $$s. Others available 2nd hand , Panasonic toughbooks etc.


I imagine that one of these is at least as capable of withstanding 'the sea' as anything fromm B&G,RayMarine etc.
Another thing to check out is what do your local Fishermen use?

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by merrydolphin

You guy with lots of money crack me up. Like its nothing.
I cruised for years with a compass, a led line, and a Sextant. It worked. I’m still alive. And yes, when GPS came out I was first in line to get one. I put all new electronics on my boat (mostly Garman) : MFD, radar, color depth, for less than 4 grand. Of course installing myself.

Just remember, everyone doesn’t have this kind of money. Thirty grand on electronics? Many people extensively cruise when the whole boat doesn’t cost thirty grand.
I am glad that you have 30k to spend on electronics, but most don’t.

Seriously, I can't think of any cruising boat I have come across with 30k in electronics. I sort of assume there is a huge premium for installation by the builder. Like when I bought my house, and they wanted an extra $5000 to paint it a color other than white, when it was only $200 for the paint (and they had to paint it anyway!) I imagine there isn't much mark up in the boat itself, so they can price it comparatively, but they make lots of money on the upsale.

Realistily, I think a budget of $5k-$7k is good for electronics for a world cruising boat. That should get you a basic instrument package (Speed, depth wind) at real chartplotter at the helm, but not the most fancy or largest one, a radar, and openCPN at the chart table.

That doesn't include installation.

[thomm225]

I guess the point is some folks simply don't need all that data at the helm (wheel)

If you have a tiller, you can usually see your computer down below in the cabin if you need more info.

OpenCPN gives you your SOG, Lat/Long, COG, etc as well as the chart and AIS if you hook that up like I did from my SH GX2200 coming in thru an RS485 USB adapter

I have two sets of GPS data coming in. One from the dongle and one from the VHF with different priorities. One is backup to the other.

My depth is provided by a vintage Humminbird Depth Finder. (the PO's)

Wind Instrument is my face or skin. (wave action wind speed)

Already had a couple tiller autopilots when I built my first OpenCPN system.

Everyone though has their reasons for which ever way they decide to go, it's just that OpenCPN seems to work fine for so much less.

Plus its easy to have redundancy with OpenCPN.

I'd actually like to have a windvane autopilot though and not use the electric ones.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I guess the point is some folks simply don't need all that data at the helm (wheel)

I don't disagree. My problem isn't that everyone needs $15,000 worth of equipment and therefore can't use opencpn. My problem is that opencpn is not a replacement for $15,000 worth of equipment. It is a replacement for an $800 chartplotter like this one

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/rayma...26?recordNum=2

Waterproof, installs at the helm if desired, can connect to a autopilot or AIS if you have them, comes complete with a depth sounder (but maybe transom mounted and not thru hull), can be seen from anywhere in your cockpit (installed at most appropriate location).

Doesn't require the user to research suitable waterproof and sunlight readable tablets or chartplotters, find appropriate 12 volt charging systems, learn the nuances of rs232 versus rs485, learning where and how to install open CPN and download charts, etc. For the most simplistic use case, mount it and run 12 volts to it - and you're done!

And I have creeks around here that when I try and zoom in to navigation zooms on opencpn, it quilts some larger chart's text on top of the cove and I get lost. Doesn't happen on a chartplotter.

[ve0hak]

Originally Posted by wholybee

... always recommend against a RPi

The biggest weakness of the RPi is it uses an SD card for storage. These fail. Reliably. There are alternative embedded systems in similar same form-factor that use eMMC or some combination of that and SPI flash for storage which is a much better.

Rasbarry PIs are made of unobtanium these days anyways.

Whatever embedded system of this type you use, best to get several spares and store them in a way that they won't get corroded.

And make sure you have a process for getting the necessary configuration, software and data onto them so that you can reliably turn a spare into a working system.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So Linux?

What's the problem with windows other than data-gobbling?

You didn't know you can turn settings off?
No auto updates on mobile connection.
It's been a couple of years since our win 10 computers gave done an update, all good, no issues whatsoever

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/stop-w...bile-data-cap/

Originally Posted by wingssail

.

Net limiter seems like the ticket. Even Norton could be OK.

I'm going to look into it.

Many consider Norton itself to be a virus
It certainly is a resource hog

For decades I've used nothing more than free AVG
Since onboard, the inbuilt windows defender as been the #1 choice
Never had a virus or issue and I download 100gb of data /mth

https://www.safetydetectives.com/bes...dows-defender/

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

You didn't know you can turn settings off?
No auto updates on mobile connection.
It's been a couple of years since our win 10 computers gave done an update, all good, no issues whatsoever

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/stop-w...bile-data-cap/




Many consider Norton itself to be a virus
It certainly is a resource hog

For decades I've used nothing more than free AVG
Since onboard, the inbuilt windows defender as been the #1 choice
Never had a virus or issue and I download 100gb of data /mth

https://www.safetydetectives.com/bes...dows-defender/

Depending on what build of windows 10 you have, you cannot turn off updates. Starting with I think build 1909 the trick using metered connections doesn't work. You can only delay an update for 30 days, then it'll happen anyway. If you are running a version older than 1909 (or really, even 1909) you better not connect to the internet. But if you do, you are able to turn off updates on those versions.

I've used many free AV over the years, and many firewall products. The built in defender is actually pretty good. But it's limited on custom firewall rules. Norton isn't nearly the bloatware it used to be, nor is it nearly as bad as McAfee, which is easily the worst AV product out there.

For purposes of firewall with a Iridium Go, and stopping windows updates, Norton really does work best.

[ozolli]

Originally Posted by ve0hak

The biggest weakness of the RPi is it uses an SD card for storage.

Not necessarily. It works fine on an external ssd.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by ve0hak

The biggest weakness of the RPi is it uses an SD card for storage. These fail.

Yes they can fail so maybe load up 2-5 with OpenCPN!

At $8.35 each not a show stopper.

https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra...68574658&psc=1

[ve0hak]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Yes they can fail so maybe load up 2-5 with OpenCPN!

For sure! Myself, I have preferred alternatives like the ROCK64 that don't have this particular common failure mode.

My point was simply to be aware of the failure modes, which are different from those of commercially manufactured chartplotters, and make sure to do something about them.

Some people like doing this stuff, some people think these rabbit holes are too much of a hassle. It's all good.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by ve0hak

For sure! Myself, I have preferred alternatives like the ROCK64 that don't have this particular common failure mode.

My point was simply to be aware of the failure modes, which are different from those of commercially manufactured chartplotters, and make sure to do something about them.

Some people like doing this stuff, some people think these rabbit holes are too much of a hassle. It's all good.

So I did buy a couple spare 32 GB micro SD Cards in 2018 when I built that system. At this time, I have two RPi's loaded with OpenCPN but am using my Laptop with Windows 10 and the latest version of OpenCPN.

When I do cruise for distance, I'll put the 2 RPi's and the HDTV (monitor) and keyboards back on board.

Back then the RPi 4 Cana Kits were $99 ea.

https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi-4-starter-kit.html

[verkerkbr]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So I did buy a couple spare 32 GB micro SD Cards in 2018 when I built that system. At this time, I have two RPi's loaded with OpenCPN but am using my Laptop with Windows 10 and the latest version of OpenCPN.

When I do cruise for distance, I'll put the 2 RPi's and the HDTV (monitor) and keyboards back on board.

Back then the RPi 4 Cana Kits were $99 ea.

https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi-4-starter-kit.html

With the latest Eeprom updates. The RPi 4 starts from an USB port with an SSD HD.

I'am using an usb 3.1 fast USB stick of 64 GB. With all the software and charts on the stick. It works almost as fast as an SSD HD.

For the connection with NMEA200 gear I'am using the small Canable Canbus board or the Actisense NGT-1 in combination with the SignalK data server software.

With 64 bits software like the RaspiOS based on Debian Bullseye or the new Ubuntu Jammy Jellyfish the RPI 4 works very well and fast. OpenCPN works in the Flatpak version very stable.

It is all modulair and can be easily replaced in case of malfunction. You can take a back-up USB stick with you.

You can put a spare RPI 4 in a steel box in case of a litgtning strike.


Bram

[sv_isara]

I just a did a 700 mile voyage using a $500 ip67 monitor running open cpn in the cockpit as our only nav system. worked great. resistive monitor, so works when wet, with gloves etc. but no pinch zoom; you gotta click the zoom button.
1000 nit daylight readable. ais and radar overlay were great when approaching san francisco

people keep bringing up the "using gloves" thing...so buy a monitor where you can use gloves???

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by sv_sharky

I just a did a 700 mile voyage using a $500 ip67 monitor running open cpn in the cockpit as our only nav system. worked great. resistive monitor, so works when wet, with gloves etc. but no pinch zoom; you gotta click the zoom button.

1000 nit daylight readable. ais and radar overlay were great when approaching san francisco



people keep bringing up the "using gloves" thing...so buy a monitor where you can use gloves???

Hey Sharky,

, for how long do you have the monitor?
Where did you get it?
Exact model?

Thanks,

Fran