OpenCPN Version 5.10 Released

[contender]

Thats great news!!! I was really waiting for that feature! Thx for all the work Dave!

I will give it a try next week on the boat.

Thank you

Michael

[Scubacat]

Originally Posted by bdbcat

Contender...
Among the three choices, probably "N2KASCII" is best. OpenCPN auto-detects the format as received. Try it and se
Thanks
Dave

Just found this part of the threads! (I have posted some other similar comments elsewhere!!)

As co-developer of the N2k0183 V5.10 was pointed to this and just tried it out.
Auto detect does seem to work well.
Overall I can see that OpenCPN now accepts wifi N2000 RAW data.
But I had issues with UDP. I think subsequently that my issues may have been due to trying to set UDP in/out ? TCP in/out works (although I have not yet actually seen any N2000 data (RAW) sent OUT from OpenCPN!).

So (sorry!) I'm not so sure that that N2000 OUTPUT side is adequately explained yet. As far as I see:
Setting a goto / activate route actually sends 0183 messages, XTE and APB etc! I think users might reasonably expect the "N2000" connection to send the N2000 equivalents of XTE /APB.. 129284 and 129283?.

This comes to a head with the Raymarine Autopilot plugin that works fine when sending $STALK (0183) commands, but nothing is seen when its switched to N2000 mode.. Is this an incompatibility that perhaps needs resolving? (it would be reasonable to expect it to send an N2KASCII or $PCDIN RAW message when switched to N2000- but there is nowhere to specify which RAW should be sent -is this a limitation of your RAW "autodetect" approach?

cheers
Dagnall

[nohal]

OpenCPN sends N2000 messages the plugins ask it to send out using the same format as detected on the respective input.
OpenCPN itself does not generate any N2000 PGN messages, except the 60928 ISO address claim.

OpenCPN core application autopilot functionality does not count with N2000 at all, support for N2000 autopilots is left to the plugins, at least for now in 5.10.

On UDP, being a connectionless protocol, bidirectional communication is kind of problematic - How would you respond to a broadcast (or multicast), which is the usual way the gateways produce data? With another broadcast? Or with unicast to the originating address? Or not at all? And how would you know?

[verkerkbr]

How about the use of the SignalK server ? OpenCPN can send specifiek data like routes, waypoints to the Signalk_server. There it can be converted to nmea2000 and put the OpenCPN data on the NMEA2000 bus. Waypoint data can then be seen on NMEA2000 instruments.

You also can use the MXTommy Kip instrument set.

Keep OpenCPN strict for navigation and all the incoming en outgoing data in the SK server.

Works great. Only one connection to O with the input Signalk data.

Bram

[Scubacat]

Originally Posted by nohal

OpenCPN sends N2000 messages the plugins ask it to send out using the same format as detected on the respective input.
OpenCPN itself does not generate any N2000 PGN messages, except the 60928 ISO address claim.

OpenCPN core application autopilot functionality does not count with N2000 at all, support for N2000 autopilots is left to the plugins, at least for now in 5.10.

On UDP, being a connectionless protocol, bidirectional communication is kind of problematic - How would you respond to a broadcast (or multicast), which is the usual way the gateways produce data? With another broadcast? Or with unicast to the originating address? Or not at all? And how would you know?

Thanks for the response.
AP plugins
I have seen (somewhere? ;-) ) some notes trying to define/clarify Autopilot usage, and they helpfully differentiated the "changing the operational Mode" (Auto /Standby/track) of the AP from the "Sending the AP track / WP data" about where the next waypoint is (XTE etc). The former usually needs proprietary commands. The latter needs standard NMEA 0183 or N2000 PGN.

• The AP Plug ins try to change the operational mode, and so need to generate $STALK (0183) or PGN (I cannot recall!) to simulate the remote control.
  It looks like I need to aim some comments to their developers about the N2000 versions!
• For the "track DATA" OpenCPN itself will sends WP/XTE etc (0183) data when you activate a route. - We can see this 0183 in the debug window.
  But where/how does one switch / enable sending N2000 versions, and why are they not visible in the NMEA debug window? That is what seems illogical to me!

Regarding Unicast/ Broadcast.
The option I have used is that the WIFI Instrument Gateway sends boat instrument data broadcast, but the PC app sends unicast back to the WIFI device so it can send that data out on the instrument network. This works well. Multiple tablets / pc can simultaneously observe the boat instruments, and any specialist apps that need to send "back" data must use the correct Unicast address for the Wifi gateway.
I think that OpenCPN is able to use this mode, as I have seen IP settings in the UDP settings. (I agree some programs do not allow IP settings in UDP and so are very restricted). IF that UDP IP is set, I was expecting OpenCPN to SEND unicast to that address, but ACCEPT broadcast data on that port..
Would that be correct?
The perfectly acceptable alternative is to use TCP for the (single) App that needs to "control" anything, and UDP for the apps that just used as displays. (ok until you want two apps that would like to send data to the boat instruments)

At the moment, my main issues is that I can confirm 0183 data is being sent- it appears in the window. But I have not seen N2000 data equivalents..

Cheers

[Scubacat]

Originally Posted by verkerkbr

How about the use of the SignalK server ? OpenCPN can send specifiek data like routes, waypoints to the Signalk_server. There it can be converted to nmea2000 and put the OpenCPN data on the NMEA2000 bus. Waypoint data can then be seen on NMEA2000 instruments.

You also can use the MXTommy Kip instrument set.

Keep OpenCPN strict for navigation and all the incoming en outgoing data in the SK server.

Works great. Only one connection to O with the input Signalk data.

Bram

I think you hit the nail on the head with the first sentence;
Because you need a SignalK server!

This extra bit of kit is needed to use SignalK, and most people just want a simple WIFI gateway, not another computer that is used just to convert messages from one format to another.

IMHO Signal K was a good attempt to try and avoid the proprietary nature of the 0183 and N2000 protocols, but ends up with far too complex messages, that are really only suitable for 'full' computers - like pi, but not for the much less complex processors (typically PIC's or esp32 / esp8266) used in the wifi gateways.
Not to start and argument, .. but it also does not really answer the proprietary nature issue, as the data eventually needs to be converted to /from 0183 or N2000 for the majority of applications and instruments.



Cheers

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by Scubacat

I think you hit the nail on the head with the first sentence;
Because you need a SignalK server!

Signalk will happily run in the background unnoticed on windows or linux, mac dunno, there's a win install file on github.
Maybe a step too far for most but if anyone is doing much with data of any kind of format then maybe worth worth thinking about.

[contender]

A lot of discussion here a bout bits and bytes, about protocolls and data formats.

The pitty is, that I cant read anybody to really care about the normal sailor on the boat. Everybody seems to be trying to protect his little part of the whole open source universe. Maybe it can be of help to sit down, relax and try to see the whole thing from a broader view:

On the boat nobody gives a damn about protocolls and software:
A paddelwheel has to count the speed in the water, a bus cable has to transfer the signal reliably, a multiplexer combines/translates and sets up the a wifi, an autopilot steers the boat and a plotter has the charts, the gauges and is for planing the route.
So very clearly: I look upon the plotter and see that I have to alter my course. So I tell the autopilot to steer +8°. It is the task of the plotter to do so. Not any dataserver, no translater, gateway or what ever additional device.

What has the plotter to do to make the +8° change happen? It has to establish a communication with the autopilot. Not only sending some waypoints or courses, but really saying: "hi autopilot, this is me the plotter and I want you to alter the course by +8°. Did you get that?"
That means technically to comunicate with the autopilot via wifi and the bus using Nmea2000. Do I recap that right as a technical noob?

Thats the job of the plotter. Yes, some third party gateway devices can do that. Yes, it looks like the signalk guys can do that. Yes, some diy esp32 solutions for remote controlling the autopilot can do that.
But its not their job. I dont want them on board. The complicate things for me, cost me additional money and leave me with a bunch of setup work and fiddling with details. And if it does not work fingerpointing will start in some internet forums.

So it would be such a pleasure for the guys out their still sailing, if the plotter simply has the ability to send the "alter the course by +8°" to the Autopilot.

Maybe anybody interested in solutions is reading this and knows the right guys to hook up with to make things happen. Than my post has done its duty.
If youre not that guy, just ignore it.

Fair winds from a sailor that is thankfull for all the work everybody puts in here!!!!

Michael

[bcn]

No chart scale on macOS (M1, 14.6.1).
Clicking on the place where it shall be opens the scale input pop-up.

[bdbcat]

bcn...
On the list, corrected for O5.10.2 service release coming soon.


Thanks
Dave

[Aldebaran17]

Zoom-Buttons (magnifying glass) only works once: a second click does not zoom further, unless I move the mouse pointer just a little bit. Same is true for zooming out button.

OpenCPN 5.10.0-universal on MacBook Air (with trackpad, so no real mouse present in system).

Manfred

[Corsair63]

Originally Posted by bcn

No chart scale on macOS (M1, 14.6.1).
Clicking on the place where it shall be opens the scale input pop-up.

On windows version 5.10.0 the numbers of the scale seems to be at different font size, as per attached screenshot.
the "1:" is slightly different that the first digits of the scale and the last 0s also are different too.

I could be wrong, but in some cases, it has been difficult to distinguish some of the digits after the "1:"

[Corsair63]

I have a problem with alarm sounds across several versions but only in Raspi (4 & 5 bookworm), using latest 5.10.0 updated two hours ago via crabdance, Version 5.10.0 Build 2024-09-03.
I'll attach the files (remove the .pdf extension)

If I reproduce it in the Raspi, e.g. using VLC it sounds at it should be.
If I put as alarms in O it makes an strange sound and same with all I have done for the rest of alarms.
I have setup the sound output as system default, in my case is the HDMI for the Raspi, but in my RP5 is Bluetooth and same behaviour.

another thing in Raspi is if O is not minimised, going to another program and trying to work on it, after some seconds, 2 or 3 the O windows goes on top of any window app, and if you want to work with another app you must minimised it.

[Corsair63]

Yesterday I had a major crash in Raspi4 because one update was stuck and at last corrupted the SSD, I could not save anything.
at least I had one USB with some update files, but not the conf file for OpenCPN, so I have to install from the scratch everything and O using the latest version from crabdance.

not big problem but only the time spent in leave everything as was before, or if possible, even better.
I did the installation with X11 activated but at last I exchanged to Wayland, I do not see any problem with O, apart from already reported of the sounds, the ones included in the installation work fine but mine sound strange, but when played with VLC the sounds are correct.

in the initial setup of O it didn't find the UDP data, but not big deal after starting O, I manually added the connection parameters.

[bdbcat]

Corsair.
re:
"If I reproduce it in the Raspi, e.g. using VLC it sounds at it should be."


And how do you do that? Something like aplay?


Thanks
Dave