Radar recommendation

[Bobby Lex]

Originally Posted by C_Breeze

Hi All,

I'm a noob when it comes to buying and installing a navigation system. I want to start with the radar.

Not trying to de-rail the direction of this thread, but I find it curious that you want to build your navigation system around your radar.

It makes a lot more sense to me to start with the GPS/Chartplotter device and build from there. Radar is just an accessory. Useful, certainly. Essential, no.

The essence of navigation starts with your GPS device IMO. If my radar fails, I'm annoyed. If my GPS device fails, I'm more than worried.

Bob

[Baby tug]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lex

Not trying to de-rail the direction of this thread, but I find it curious that you want to build your navigation system around your radar.

It makes a lot more sense to me to start with the GPS/Chartplotter device and build from there. Radar is just an accessory. Useful, certainly. Essential, no.

The essence of navigation starts with your GPS device IMO. If my radar fails, I'm annoyed. If my GPS device fails, I'm more than worried.

Bob

I don’t wanna start a fight I know people just love their radars however I haven’t used one in years I find them more distracting than useful my theory is people love their boat to look like the starship enterprise , I honestly just don’t find them useful I know some people like to overlay them over their charts. I’m sure I’ll be criticized however a navigation app for my iPad the best auto pilot I could buy a handheld VHF and a good depth finder and I’m good to go

[Baby tug]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lex

Not trying to de-rail the direction of this thread, but I find it curious that you want to build your navigation system around your radar.

It makes a lot more sense to me to start with the GPS/Chartplotter device and build from there. Radar is just an accessory. Useful, certainly. Essential, no.

The essence of navigation starts with your GPS device IMO. If my radar fails, I'm annoyed. If my GPS device fails, I'm more than worried.

Bob

I don’t wanna start a fight I know people just love their radars however I haven’t used one in years I find them more distracting than useful my theory is people love their boat to look like the starship enterprise , I honestly just don’t find them useful I know some people like to overlay them over their charts. I’m sure I’ll be criticized however a navigation app for my iPad the best auto pilot I could buy a handheld VHF and a good depth finder and I’m good to go

[hoolie]

Needless to say, the importance of a radar depends where you sail. We have an older Furuno that was of huge value when we crossed the heavy traffic lanes of the English Channel. But now we're based on the western French Mediterranean coast where there's very little fog and not much more heavy shipping it hasn't been used for quite a while. AIS is more useful to locate the local fishing boats and keep track of what they're doing. If we sail further afield or locate elsewhere I'll consider something more modern along the lines of the radars discussed in this thread.

[merrimac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What sucks deplorably is the MARPA implementation, which is basically unusable. Bearing discrimination is not that good -- I guess because of the small scanner. The horrible MARPA must be the result of that plus some defect in the signal processing.

The real reason is that Navico does the MARPA processing in the radome, and 4G has a really weak processor (14 years old by now) that runs Microsoft Windows CE 4.5 (according to the sticker on the Radome)… They have now caught up with HALO and it is much better (if you have Vulcan/Zeus 3 or newer). Even does 100 target ARPA and even better is the Doppler to target conversion.

The plug-in does (m)arpa tracking in the plug-in. This means we can’t share the targets between OpenCPN and the MFD, but we have all the cpu power of the computer, which is generally superior. With HALO we can also do the automatic Doppler-to-target mode like HALO+MFD. Douwe’s math background meant he was able to implement an effective Kalman filter that performs really well!

… One really good reason not to buy older models of Navico stuff, or perhaps any Navico stuff at all, is the fast orphaning of superseded models. You are really on your own very fast, and with a 4G radar, which is already a couple of generations out of date, you are on your own right out of the box.

Not sure which planet you live on, but 4G was introduced in 2010 and superseded by HALO in 2019. That’s ONE generation and thus not exactly like mobile phones which are replaced every year, not every decade.

OP, sorry about hijacking your post….

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Hakan

The radar plugin (M)ARPA calculation is done in the plugin independently of the connected scanner and though works with every scanner.

I do agree about your views about the AIS presentation.

Wow, cool! Then I'll have to try it.


Concerning AIS presentation of OpenCPN -- I can't say enough good things about it. It is brilliant!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by merrimac

The real reason is that Navico does the MARPA processing in the radome, and 4G has a really weak processor (14 years old by now) that runs Microsoft Windows CE 4.5 (according to the sticker on the Radome)… They have now caught up with HALO and it is much better (if you have Vulcan/Zeus 3 or newer). Even does 100 target ARPA and even better is the Doppler to target conversion.

The plug-in does (m)arpa tracking in the plug-in. This means we can’t share the targets between OpenCPN and the MFD, but we have all the cpu power of the computer, which is generally superior. With HALO we can also do the automatic Doppler-to-target mode like HALO+MFD. Douwe’s math background meant he was able to implement an effective Kalman filter that performs really well!

This year I sailed from Mediterranean Spain to the Caribbean in a boat with a new HALO radar -- I am so accustomed to unfunctional MARPA that I didn't even try MARPA on this radar. Looks like i need to try again.

Originally Posted by merrimac

. . . Not sure which planet you live on, but 4G was introduced in 2010 and superseded by HALO in 2019. That’s ONE generation and thus not exactly like mobile phones which are replaced every year, not every decade.


OP, sorry about hijacking your post….

Lot of useful information here, and I think for the OP too.


You're right about the radar; I was thinking of the plotters (which you have to buy to use the radar, unless you are going straight to O). The plotters are superseded very often, not quite as often as mobile phones (that is a bit of hyperbole) but not far off, and they are immediately abandoned by Navico.

[C_Breeze]

Thanks to everyone for the info. It generally syncs with what I have found. IIRC, Furuno is very well liked because of the company's support but isn't supported by the plug-in. Maybe 1 day.

I have decided on the B&G Halo 20+--good features and the price is within my budget. It also doesn't seem to have any significant issues that I could find.


Now @merrimac: how do I get this?


Good if you can find at (for instance) 50% reduced price.

I would settle for 25% off but 50 is better!

Thanks again to all!

[merrimac]

50% was possible on 4G when retailers were trying to clear their ramining stock, I would be surprised if you can get more than 5% or 10% off list on HALO right now as they are in short supply.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by merrimac

50% was possible on 4G when retailers were trying to clear their ramining stock, I would be surprised if you can get more than 5% or 10% off list on HALO right now as they are in short supply.

And, prices are way higher now anyway and eat up discounts..

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by motion30

I do not know about 18 xhd. But I just installed a fathom 24 and it is very disappointing. Can see moving targets or small boats

Hi Motion,

Assume you mean the Garmin Fantom 24 dome?

Sorry but I'm not clear about what you find disappointing. Did you mean to say you "cannot" see moving targets or small boats or is it something else?

I have had a Garmin Fantom 18 for about three years and am quite happy with it. I can easily see small boats, for example 18-20' power boats and in fact in calm seas I can even see the wakes behind them. Same with moving targets large or small. Also clearly picks up buoys and channel markers (including the ones without radar reflectors) both far out and close up.

By tuning the gain and rain filters I can see rain and thunderstorms 20-30 miles away. Also very low power draw on standby and active. And very easy to switch from standby to instant on.

Have only had a couple of very old radar in the past for comparison so can't comment on the Fantom vs other modern radars but have no complaints at all about the Garmin.

[merrimac]

Note that nobody with a Fantom has come forward to add support, so the plug-in doesn't support it yet. Thus for the purpose of using it with OpenCPN the performance of Fantom is irrelevant.

[jimellifritt]

Originally Posted by C_Breeze

Hi All,

I'm a noob when it comes to buying and installing a navigation system. I want to start with the radar.

Many choices but I'd like to get 1 that integrates with opencpn and the other bits to be added later.

My travel plans will take me from Seattle to Alaska, Hawaii all coasts and an Atlantic crossing.

Currently I'm considering a Garmin 18 xhd. Will this be enough for the job or something else. Thanks for the info.

Pick a brand and stick with it. This eliminates finger pointing when something g does not work. Also look at chart costs for the system. We have Furuno, very satisfied. Great service. Charts are cheaper than Garmin and are all ready on your machine you just need unlock code.

[Corsair63]

I have Furuno (wifi-one) together with plotter & echo-sounding connected via N2K with router and computer. and I really happy with them.

what am I missing? of course the connection with OpenCPN it seems that Furuno is let say complicated.

I'm not really enthusiastic about plotter and prefer computers using a good navigation program like OpenCPN.

[Leighpilot]

You state that you want to install a navigation system, starting with a radar. That’s a problem. Radar isn’t a navigation system. Or even part of one. It’s at best an aid to navigation.

Better start with a chart plotter , echosounder and an AIS. ( yes AIS isn’t a navigation item but it’ll do what a radar will do in most cases ). To navigate with a radar you’d have to take bearings and distances off prominent shore features. The problem with that is that often a coast line has none or sometimes you’ll be getting what looks like a coast return but is actually a return from hills or mountains further inland if the coastline is low lying. Which will lead you astray.

Our navigation lecturer at the Merchant Navy Academy was very insistent on radar only being an aid to navigation, not a means of navigation. So go get yourself a good chart plotter , echosounder and an AIS transponder. Most boats will be transmitting an AIS signal and they’ll then show up on your chart plotter where you can easily see their details , speed, course , size etc. Even their MMSI number so you can call them to coordinate course changes etc if needed.

And get some experienced crew , formal training before you go out. You can die doing this stuff.