Routes and Mark Duplication

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by bdbcat

Wingssail...
"make wholesale changes to lots of mark's visibilities so that I have a lot of manual effort"
Be assured, we will not do that. Thousands of users coming at us with torches and pitchforks sounds like no fun. No thank you, sir.



The trick, as Nohal notes, is to "improve" the UX without breaking existing workflows, nor hurting performance.


Anyway, I understand your use case now. I expect you will see some logic improvements here when we start the next Beta test cycle, which is "real soon now". That will give us a chance to iron out the bugs.


Thanks for the feedback.
Dave

Great! Thank you.

[fgd3]

Wingsail, you're right. The issue discussed in FS2795 is related to the behavior of toggling waypoints between visible and hidden. I've never used that feature. But I think your issue is different from JeffS-Sailing's original post, which begins "I imported marks from a GPX file."

JeffS-Sailing, I created a GPX file of four waypoints, edited out the GUIDs, imported it to a clean chart, exported it to a new file, imported the waypoints from the new file, created several routes, made some hidden, then visible, sometimes elected to make the shared waypoints hidden, sometimes not. I wasn't able to reproduce the results you described except once, when OpenCPN crashed. Any time I was able to exit normally I did not get duplicate waypoints even when I imported waypoints from multiple files (insuring there were different GUIDs.

You wrote "If assigning a unique ID to a mark is a requirement of OpenCPN it seems like OpenCPN should make that assigment when a mark is selected for multiple use rather than assuming that a user will know that importing marks from another source requires exporting and re-importing marks before using them for multiple courses."

"JeffS-Sailing, in your original post you mentioned importing a list of waypoints. I asked where that list came from and never got an answer." I still haven't had an answer to my question.

OpenCPN assigns a GUID when an object is created or when an object without a GUID is imported. Where you might get into trouble is if you later import the same objects from the original file that doesn't have a GUID assigned. What I would expect to happen is OpenCPN would not recognize the object is the same as one it has already loaded so it would assign a new GUID and you would now have a duplicate object. To protect against that risk I recommended you overwrite the original GPX file with one created by OpenCPN. If you won't ever import the original GPX file again that isn't necessary.

I know I wrote "If you import a GPX file from any other source you must then export all those marks to a new GPX file to be sure OpenCPN has attached identifies to all the routes, tracks, and waypoints." I was thinking the same thing I wrote in the preceding paragraph, I just didn't express it properly.

Dave, how can replying "No" to "Do you also want to make the shared waypoints being part of this route invisible?" produce an inconsistent internal state, such that the visibility of the affected waypoints cannot then be toggled? I haven't been able to make that happen.

"c) Otherwise, hide only the unshared waypoints in a route. Ensure that any un-hidden (i.e. shared) points may later be individually hidden, as desired, but only if all routes using such points are also hidden." Consider this. When a route is hidden all objects that exist only as part of that route will be hidden with it. Any objects which exist independent of the route will not be hidden. Waypoints have an independent existence, whether shared or not so their visibility should not be tied to that of a route that happens to include them. Shared route points exist as long as one of the routes in which they are used exists.

You wrote:

"Terminology differences.
"In the context of OCPN, a "shared" waypoint is just what you'd label as a "permanent" waypoint. The word "shared" means that this waypoint exists as an entity, but is is "shared" with a route. Imported waypoints are "shared". Dropped waypoints are "shared".

"In fact, the only "waypoints" that are not shared are the ones automatically dropped during route creation when not using a nearby existing point. We might call these "routepoints", for clarity. Anyway, these are the default diamond shaped marks."

I don't think that's right. First, there is no such thing as a "permanent" waypoint. I think what people mean to convey with that word is an object whose existence is independent of any other object. A waypoint is an independent object. It does not matter if it is shared or not. A route point exists only within the route for which it was created. If the route is deleted its included route points automatically go away--unless they have been shared. A shared route point goes away when the last route which uses it is deleted.

So the correct terminology is that some objects are independent. Examples are waypoint created with "Drop Mark" and "Drop MOB marker". Examples of dependent objects are route points dropped during route creation and points created by "Navigate to Here".

Shared status is different from independence, though it modifies it. If a route point is shared its existence becomes independent of any single route which uses it. Instead it is now dependent on all the routes which use it. An independent object which is shared acquires dependents (not dependence). If you try to delete a waypoint which is shared you will be warned that there are routes which use it.

[bdbcat]

fgd3....
I have implemented new logic for this, coming soon in O55 Beta.
Let us defer this conversation until then, and re-engage (if necessary) at that point.


Thanks for the analysis.
Dave

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by fgd3

... If the route is deleted its included route points automatically go away--unless they have been shared. A shared route point goes away when the last route which uses it is deleted...

Hi fgd3, This scenario (described above) precludes the reuse of a set of waypoints from season to season in routes which are not retained.

If I place some waypoints, say 20 of them, using "Drop Mark", at that point in time, before I use any of them in routes, none of them are "shared" by any route. Yet they still exist,

Subsequently I create a number of routes, each using a few of the waypoints (but not all and some waypoints do not get used at all). This is where I might make some routes invisible (not deleted, just invisible to clear up the screen in preparation to creating another route in the same area).

At the end of the season all of those routes will be discarded (deleted) and new ones will be created the next season, maybe similar, maybe different. Some waypoints may be moved dropped, or new ones added. Most are exactly the same as they were previously.

In your scenario as soon as the last route is deleted the waypoints all go away and they would have to be recreated. (in Jeff-S's case he might re-import them but I don't have a GPX file unless I make one).

So this is why I prefer that waypoints which are created by "Drop Mark" or importation of a GPX file stay unless explicitly deleted by the user. They may be made visible or invisible but they stay on the list of waypoints on the Route and & Mark Manager and can be used again should a new route be needed in which they would be used.

Thank your for your consideration of this requirement.

(Dave, sorry, I didn't see your suggestion to defer the discussion)

[fgd3]

Originally Posted by wingssail

So this is why I prefer that waypoints which are created by "Drop Mark" or importation of a GPX file stay unless explicitly deleted by the user. They may be made visible or invisible but they stay on the list of waypoints on the Route and & Mark Manager and can be used again should a new route be needed in which they would be used.

That's exactly how OpenCPN works for me.

[rgleason]

Why not use the javascript plugin to make a script that saves all the wp separately that you want to keep? ..or some other more intelligent action?
I understand the javascript plugin might be the most appropriate tool to use for this.
It would be good to develop a number of scripts that do different thing with routes and waypoints.

[IOM]

Originally Posted by JeffS-Sailing

I imported marks from a GPX file.
I began defining routes using those marks.
Each time I selected a mark as a mark in a route I was prompted about using the mark near the point I clicked and I answered yes.
Turns out.... the marks are duplicated in the list of marks rather than using marks that I imported. Eventually, after defining 4 routes (racing courses) OpenCPN crashed.
When I restarted it, I found the duplicated marks.
The documentation says that routes can use permanent marks but I cannot find a way to specify that a mark is "permanent".
And... when you attempt to delete the duplicated marks, you get prompted over and over and over about whether you really want to delete this mark because it's used in a route.

Is there some way to define marks and ONLY keep ONE copy of each mark, no matter how many routes (race courses) they are used in ?

Is there some way to turn off the warnings about deleting marks (I've looked and don't see any option like that).

I have never encountered this problem, but I kept accidentally moving marks. I eventually saved all the racing marks in a single gpx file and imported them as a persistent Layer. The advantage is I cant accidentally edit, move or delete the fixed racing marks without recreating the file. When Using a mark in the persistent layer for a route, I don't think it asked to use the mark nearest either, I just placed my route point at or near the mark location and continued with laying the route.

In essence the racing mark group can be construed as permanent parks, but you can hide/delete them as a group as well if needed.