Routes and Mark Duplication

[JeffS-Sailing]

I imported marks from a GPX file.
I began defining routes using those marks.
Each time I selected a mark as a mark in a route I was prompted about using the mark near the point I clicked and I answered yes.
Turns out.... the marks are duplicated in the list of marks rather than using marks that I imported. Eventually, after defining 4 routes (racing courses) OpenCPN crashed.
When I restarted it, I found the duplicated marks.
The documentation says that routes can use permanent marks but I cannot find a way to specify that a mark is "permanent".
And... when you attempt to delete the duplicated marks, you get prompted over and over and over about whether you really want to delete this mark because it's used in a route.

Is there some way to define marks and ONLY keep ONE copy of each mark, no matter how many routes (race courses) they are used in ?

Is there some way to turn off the warnings about deleting marks (I've looked and don't see any option like that).

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by JeffS-Sailing

I imported marks from a GPX file.
I began defining routes using those marks.
Each time I selected a mark as a mark in a route I was prompted about using the mark near the point I clicked and I answered yes.
Turns out.... the marks are duplicated in the list of marks rather than using marks that I imported. Eventually, after defining 4 routes (racing courses) OpenCPN crashed.
When I restarted it, I found the duplicated marks.
The documentation says that routes can use permanent marks but I cannot find a way to specify that a mark is "permanent".
And... when you attempt to delete the duplicated marks, you get prompted over and over and over about whether you really want to delete this mark because it's used in a route.

Is there some way to define marks and ONLY keep ONE copy of each mark, no matter how many routes (race courses) they are used in ?

Is there some way to turn off the warnings about deleting marks (I've looked and don't see any option like that).

This is very close to some of the problems I have been having with using existing waypoints to create routes (including race courses).

I've found some anomalies. These don't seem to be consistent and not always reproducible but the have been an aggravation when trying to create multiple routes from a set of permanent waypoints.

• some waypoints appear on the screen even when they are clicked as "invisible" on the waypoints screen of Route and Mark Manager. Ending a leg of a route at one of these waypoints does not bring up the prompt "use a nearby waypoint?" and results in a duplicate mark
• When I try to delete the duplicate it is hard to choose which one is the "real" and some times a pair of duplicate marks are both used in different routes. In that case moving a waypoint (when the mark is set to a different position) does not affect all the routes which use it (dang!)
• Waypoints created when OpenGL is activated or not seem to behave differently.
• It seems like when I make a route invisible it often makes waypoints invisible even when I have declined that option.
• have resorted to turning OpenGL off or on to try to get around these issues which only seems to make things worse.
• I also suspect that waypoints created a few versions previously in O could behave differently.

The fact that I cannot consistently reproduce or define these problems adds to the frustration.

[JeffS-Sailing]

Thanks for the confirmation.
I've burned a lot of time trying to find out if this will be a useful tool for me.
You're confirming that it probably will not be.
Too bad. It looks like it should work, people sound excited about it, but....
Best of luck.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by JeffS-Sailing

Thanks for the confirmation.
I've burned a lot of time trying to find out if this will be a useful tool for me.
You're confirming that it probably will not be.
Too bad. It looks like it should work, people sound excited about it, but....
Best of luck.

Jeff-Sailing, I have stuck with OpenCPN and will. It is my navigation tool for cruising and for racing I have managed to get my courses into it and out of it for migration to my on-deck navigation tool, Sail Racer. We do 20-30 races a year and it's working, although with a bit of trouble.

I don't know of any alternative, especially one which can do as much.

[JeffS-Sailing]

Interesting.
Can you tell me how you've worked around the problems described in this thread and others you've encountered ?

[rgleason]

Some suggestions that might help. Develop a system to back up or copy old routings and try to keep your number of routings down, particularly if you are traversing the same areas over and over. Frequently in and out of certain harbors? Use a good previous route.

I tend not to share WP.

Perhaps it would help if you could focus on one issue at a time that you have found. rather than writing a general complaint. Focus first on the worst problem you have found. learn about it and write the bug up in tracker. The bug should be very detailed and specific and repeatable so the programmer can understand the problem.

If you have some good feature requests, those can be entered in tracker too.

[fgd3]

It works fine in 4.8.8. Unless the logic has changed since that version it should work for you as well. I launched OpenCPN with a clean chart. I don't leave routes and waypoints on the chart. I create a route, export it to a GPX file, and delete it. When I need to use that route again I import it.


I created three waypoints by right-clicking and choosing "Drop mark here" from the pop up menu. Then I selected the "Create route" function from the tool bar. I left-clicked near each waypoint and answered "Yes" when asked "Use nearby waypoint?" When I was done the Route Manager showed just the three waypoints under the "Waypoints" tab. Under the "Route" tab it showed the route I had created. I selected the three waypoints and exported them to "Waypoint test.gpx". I selected the route and exported it to "Test Route.gpx". I deleted the route and all waypoints and restarted OpenCPN. I imported "Test Route.gpx". My route appeared in the route manager under the "Route" tab and the three waypoints appeared under the "Waypoints" tab. I imported "Waypoint test.gpx". The program recognized the waypoints newly imported were the same as those in the route and no additional waypoints appeared in the "Waypoints" tab.


Try repeating my test with your version of OpenCPN and see if it doesn't work the same way. Please let us know the result.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Some suggestions that might help. Develop a system to back up or copy old routings and try to keep your number of routings down, particularly if you are traversing the same areas over and over. Frequently in and out of certain harbors? Use a good previous route.

I tend not to share WP.Neither do I, and I do follow already your above suggestions, however it is essential that I keep many of the routes available since the local race committee may announce any of them when we are already at sea and cannot import them without Internet

Perhaps it would help if you could focus on one issue at a time that you have found. rather than writing a general complaint. Focus first on the worst problem you have found. learn about it and write the bug up in tracker. The bug should be very detailed and specific and repeatable so the programmer can understand the problem.

If you have some good feature requests, those can be entered in tracker too.

Sorry for the complaint dump I posted previously. I have now created Flyspray 2795 with the one complaint I have been easily able to demonstrate and document (see below). I think it might be at the root cause for the waypoint/route issues I've experienced. I am happy to work with anyone who is trying to address these issues. I will work on documenting some of the others.

Waypoint Visability #2795

5.2.4+6b314e6

Certain waypoints remain visable on the chart even when marked "X" on the Route & Mark manager. (see VYC W2, VYC W 1 and Vallarta Start RC 52) in the screen shot.

These waypoints cannot now be selected when defining a route (no option to "use nearby waypoint) although they have been previously. Several routes exist in Route and Mark Manager which include these waypoints

Creating a route to that location results in a new waypoint (Routepoint?) which then becomes a duplicate of the existing waypoint. giving a name and making it visible does not result in a waypoint which can be reused.

Previously created routes using that waypoint can be displayed and display correctly and use that waypoint and can be exported. Exporting and reimporting these waypoints in a route does not result in duplicate waypoints and does not apparetnly change the behaviour of either the waypoint manager or the route.

Making invisible a previously created route with that waypoint and selecting "make shared waypoints...invisible" does not work, yes or no.

These issues have existed in previous versions of O

The follwing tracker reports seem to be related.

2208
2384
2436
2696

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by JeffS-Sailing

Interesting.
Can you tell me how you've worked around the problems described in this thread and others you've encountered ?

I have deleted duplicate waypoints and created them all again and then the system seems to work. However subsequently the problems reoccur and I do not know what triggers them. See Flyspray 2795 mentioned above.

[fgd3]

"it is essential that I keep many of the routes available since the local race committee may announce any of them when we are already at sea and cannot import them without Internet"


What sort of configuration are you running that doesn't allow you to import GPX files from your local hard drive? I certainly don't need an Internet connection to import routes, tracks, and waypoints that I have exported to GPX files.

[fgd3]

Originally Posted by JeffS-Sailing

I imported marks from a GPX file.
I began defining routes using those marks.

Where were the marks in the GPX file you imported created? If they weren't created by OpenCPN they probably lack the UUID which identifies them as unique waypoints to OpenCPN. If you import a GPX file from any other source you must then export all those marks to a new GPX file to be sure OpenCPN has attached identifies to all the routes, tracks, and waypoints.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by fgd3

"it is essential that I keep many of the routes available since the local race committee may announce any of them when we are already at sea and cannot import them without Internet"


What sort of configuration are you running that doesn't allow you to import GPX files from your local hard drive? I certainly don't need an Internet connection to import routes, tracks, and waypoints that I have exported to GPX files.

No, you are right about that and I thought I had corrected myself. I did not include that comment in my flyspray report.

I do keep all my GPX files in a directory on the local hard drive.

I do have a need for Internet connection but it is to upload waypoints and routes for another device which only accepts marks and routes downloaded from its own server.

BTW, I am happy that you are reading my comments closely.

[bdbcat]

Wingsail...
Please see request for GPX file at:
https://opencpn.org/flyspray/index.p...s&task_id=2795


Dave

[RhythmDoctor]

I've used OpenCPN for about 10 years and its amazing features make the occasional glitch worth it. I have it talking to all my navigation equipment through Bluetooth and nicely integrating the data onto a dashboard on my Windows tablet.

One of the annoying glitches is the sharing of waypoints between different routes. O seems to offer to do this whenever you click a new route waypoint near an existing one. In short, don't ever accept the offer to use an existing waypoint - create a new one instead.

I save every route individually in its own .GPX file (filename gives origin and destination) and re-use them years later. When opening several routes (which may have been edited over the years), unexpected things happen that can cause one or more of your routes to divert over land. I'm still editing routes from many years ago to eliminate these shared waypoints.

I've never made a flyspray request for this because the issue is easily avoided by not sharing any route waypoints.

[fgd3]

Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor

One of the annoying glitches is the sharing of waypoints between different routes. O seems to offer to do this whenever you click a new route waypoint near an existing one. In short, don't ever accept the offer to use an existing waypoint - create a new one instead.

It what way is that a glitch? If you try to create a route point near an existing waypoint OpenCPN asks if you want to use the existing waypoint. If you choose to do so and later move that waypoint all the routes which share the waypoint will be adjusted to reflect it's new position. That's useful if the waypoint is an aid to navigation which has been relocated or a physical object which has been resurveyed.


Rather than dogmatically using or rejecting shared waypoints it is more sensible to spend a little time understanding how they work so you can use them when appropriate and avoid them when they don't meet your needs.