Starlink hexagon layer

[Moo]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

And pretty much our experience as well
Couldn't be easier

Interesting, that doesn't seem to be the case here in NZ. Perhaps once you are on a global roaming plan those boundaries kick in, for the priority data, but as for detection of and issuing of warnings for being on the wrong service etc.. this is not the case.

Many vessels here in NZ have been stopped using the RV service with the "letter" and service terminated. All without leaving land hexagons so the detection is not based on the hexagons alone, if at all.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Moo

Interesting, that doesn't seem to be the case here in NZ. Perhaps once you are on a global roaming plan those boundaries kick in, for the priority data, but as for detection of and issuing of warnings for being on the wrong service etc.. this is not the case.

Many vessels here in NZ have been stopped using the RV service with the "letter" and service terminated. All without leaving land hexagons so the detection is not based on the hexagons alone, if at all.

We aren't on global roaming
Just the standard regional roam

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Moo

Interesting, that doesn't seem to be the case here in NZ. Perhaps once you are on a global roaming plan those boundaries kick in, for the priority data, but as for detection of and issuing of warnings for being on the wrong service etc.. this is not the case.

Many vessels here in NZ have been stopped using the RV service with the "letter" and service terminated. All without leaving land hexagons so the detection is not based on the hexagons alone, if at all.

The letter is just a letter. RV users 10 miles from the coast have gotten the letter.

Starlink is very consistent in their language and practice. They uses hexagons and the the determination of "land" vs "ocean" (stupid names as if the entire world is either land or ocean) is based on their availability map.

There inintially was a lot of confusion, SpaceX was intentionally vauge, people were doing a lot of speculating, people were claiming they were disconnected when it was just availability issues.

Since May when SpaceX cleared up the language it works exactly how they say it works. There is no need for you to invent your own system out of thin air and then pretend SpaceX is using that.

They aren't using some set of hyper accurate maps and tracing the contours of the coastlines. In fact due to the hexagon system the reverse is true. There are places where "land" coverage ends essentially at the coast sometiemes not even all the land is covered. There are other places where 10+ nm offshore is "land". It is all how the fixed hexagon grid aligns with the coasts.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Moo

Starlink have not laid out exactly which is which in documentation that I have seen. Would you care to link to this incredibly clear document? Something with a bit of detail other than the little snippet in your screenshot which does not reflect reality..

I have direct experience with several vessels that have never ever left land hexagons as per the coverage map and have had the letter and their service cut. So in my experience (not anecdotal) with numerous vessels I know that the hexagons mean nothing.

https://support.starlink.com/
Search for the term "ocean" and then in the results click on "What areas are considered land vs ocean under the Mobile Plans?"

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by wholybee

https://support.starlink.com/
Search for the term "ocean" and then in the results click on "What areas are considered land vs ocean under the Mobile Plans?"

He will never believe you. He invested his own hyper accurate coastline map tracing system in his mind. All the evidence in the world will never convince him he is wrong.

For the rest of us in the real world. Despite SpaceX being super vauge for a long time the system does work as they say it does. Black hexes are "ocean" and require priority data, non-black hexes are "land" and just require normal mobile data. If you move beyond your continent you need global otherwise regional works fine.

It does lead to some weird edge cases in that some islands in the Bahamas and Belize are "ocean" and so is portions of the Chesapeake Bay. Likewise by luck of the draw you can be 10 nm offshore in some places and be "land". However those edge cases all align perfectly with the availability map so despite being weird they prove the system does work exactly like SpaceX says it works.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Moo

…

Starlink are not using the hexagons as on the maps to define service areas.

…

That contradicts what the company says, so are you saying that they’re lying? How do you know that what you write is true? Are you a Starlink engineer? Why on earth would Starlink post a map with hexagons on it that show either land or ocean and say that is how the system works, why would they do that if that isn’t how it works? Please explain.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by fxykty

That contradicts what the company says, so are you saying that they’re lying? How do you know that what you write is true? Are you a Starlink engineer? Why on earth would Starlink post a map with hexagons on it that show either land or ocean and say that is how the system works, why would they do that if that isn’t how it works? Please explain.

You obviously haven't read the rest of the thread where I explained where I am coming from.

Or the fact that I repeatedly stated that vessels that have never left "land" hexagons have had their service terminated etc. etc..

The hexagons are just a representation of the areas rather than what they actually use. I don't know what they use, I have stated that, and perhaps Starlink do use some form of finer grained hexagon system; but it isn't at the ganularity shown on the map.

All the other guessers here who are so sure of their facts all seem to have experience of 1, or 0, actual interactions with Starlink. One or two have commented on their own experience but all use phrases like "seem to match" etc..

What makes you think they are telling the truth?

Why do they think they are telling the truth?

Why do you think they are competent to comment?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Moo

You obviously haven't read the rest of the thread where I explained where I am coming from.



Or the fact that I repeatedly stated that vessels that have never left "land" hexagons have had their service terminated etc. etc..



The hexagons are just a representation of the areas rather than what they actually use. I don't know what they use, I have stated that, and perhaps Starlink do use some form of finer grained hexagon system; but it isn't at the ganularity shown on the map.



All the other guessers here who are so sure of their facts all seem to have experience of 1, or 0, actual interactions with Starlink. One or two have commented on their own experience but all use phrases like "seem to match" etc..



What makes you think they are telling the truth?



Why do they think they are telling the truth?



Why do you think they are competent to comment?

I have read this thread from the beginning as it’s a topic I’m interested in.

Our experience, which of course is an anecdote based on n=1 users, consists of 7 months of using the Starlink Mobile Regional service (originally named RV, then Roam) with the standard rectangular dish (aka Dishy) on the east, south and west coasts of Australia as we’ve been coastal and near offshore sailing from Brisbane to (now) Exmouth. Until the beginning of May Starlink wasn’t enforcing their TOS so we, along with many others, could use our service in ocean areas without interruption.

Since 9 May Starlink has been enforcing their location TOS, which for our plan provides low priority unlimited Mobile Data in land areas of our continental registration. We tested that and discovered that within minutes of sailing into an ocean hexagon (by matching our charted position to the coverage map on the Starlink website) that our service would be disconnected with an “out of location” message in the Starlink app. On opting in to Mobile Priority Data the connection is restored within a couple of minute. Once we are back into a land hexagon, or shortly before, we turn off Mobile Priority Data. A few times we’ve done it too early and we get the “out of location” message and no connection. Once we’re definitely back into a land hexagon (and some of these extend 10+ miles out to sea from the nearest adjacent dry land) our regular Mobile Data connection is restored.

So, at least in 3/4 of coastal Australia, land coverage corresponds directly and very closely with the Starlink coverage map. Hence, the assumption that Starlink is using those hexagons to determine our location. You state that’s not the case in New Zealand. That’s weird and seems to be an outlier based on other posts in this thread.

It is possible that your examples of terminated service are due to something else other than “out of location”. In each of those cases, what has been the Starlink response? Their customer service isn’t great, but in my case every support request that I’ve made has been answered.

In any case, long may it continue that sailboat speeds remain below the in-motion threshold.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by fxykty

It is possible that your examples of terminated service are due to something else other than “out of location”. In each of those cases, what has been the Starlink response? Their customer service isn’t great, but in my case every support request that I’ve made has been answered.

In any case, long may it continue that sailboat speeds remain below the in-motion threshold.

Nope, the termination was due to using the services in oceanic areas. Some of the vessels are inshore fishing vessels and some are pleasure yachts. The only way to get the service back is to buy one of the plans.

If you look at the coverage map of the NZ area you will see that the country is small and hexagons large. Several of the boats have never left Tasman Bay (absolutely completely inside land hexagons; not even on the outside band).

[Statistical]

Well apparently New Zealand is completely different from the rest of the world according to a single person (that seems likely).

Nowhere else does Starlink terminate service. Using a regional plan it simply shuts off temporarily in a black hex and when you return to a blue hex it works again. Where it shuts off is dependent on the hex lines not distance from land. I have had it shut off less than 3 nm from shore and also work >10 nm from shore just due to the luck of how the hexes align with land. When in a black ("ocean") hex it either won't work or you can opt in pay as you go $2/GB. In neither case is your service permanently terminated.

In fact there is one such place right near Cape Henry. If you look closely at the map you will see the other land hexes leave just a tiny sliver of land in Virginia Beach not covered so SpaceX expanded the coverage map and nearly all of this hex (~11 nm across) extends way out into the Atlantic.



I had coverage there with priority data turned off but sailing South from that towards Sand Bridge when you pass into the black hex you lose coverage (w/o priority data) even though you are now closer to land. I am not the only one anyone interested check out Starlink For Boat group on facebook hundreds of people have observed first hand the exact same thing all over the world.

Still since apparently it doesn't work this way (claimed) in New Zealand I guess we can ask the mods to change the title of the thread to:

"Starlink hexagon layer (for everyone not in New Zealand)"

[Simi 60]

All I can think is they didn't have roam and had the fixed address version.
That may get them cut and force them into a new plan
But it would only need to be roam with $3:19 (or whatever NZ gets charged)/gb

[mr_rob]

What's the point in paying 250 a month for 50gb when it is 2 bucks per gb on the regular plan? genuine question.

Originally Posted by philiosophy

This is a very important subject for cruisers. I certainly do not know all the ins and outs as I am still cruising Asia. And getting cheap internet. That said at 250.00 a month It is exciting to have 50 gigs of decent internet on a crossing. That access to Met Service weather information as opposed to Irridium GO and Predict Wind costing 130.00 monthly plus 500.00 per year with glitchy setup,, sllllooooowwww connection speed, difficulty connecting etc. I wonder if the two different plans, 250.00 A MONTH, AS OPPOSED TO ABOUT 180.00 A MONTH for the so called Premium pkg.
Perhaps, Marine simply means, BOATS on the water, and RECREATIONAL VEHICLES means VEHICLES used on land. Again I am not fully versed on this.....But I know a lot of people would like to get more than they are paying for. I will leave it at that.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by mr_rob

What's the point in paying 250 a month for 50gb when it is 2 bucks per gb on the regular plan? genuine question.

It works out the the same price:
$150 + 50GB @ $2 = $250

The difference is that if you pay for the 50GB up front, and you use it all, your service is paused and you don't get charged any more. $250, and that is it. If you opt for the $2 GB, and you go over, you could get charged A LOT. Several people were not careful, allowed their devices to update, or watched too many movies in 4k, and got a surprise $1000 bill. The flip side of that is that if you are careful, 1GB is more than plenty for weather and a fair bit of normal communications, email, and sharing photos. As long as you don't get caught up on Facebook etc. Stick to email.