Lavezzi 40: Lavezi 40

[Dragon Lady]

Originally Posted by D&D

Great post DL.
Where R U cruising these days?

Thank you I am in Pittwater now.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

OK thanks guys, I appreciate the input, especially about the one that hadn't been peeled.
I am pretty certain that a lack of saturation of the glass fiber is involved.
It's an almost certainty that they have tried different resins and still the problem persists.
There are rumors of a law by FP against the resin supplier.
No doubt if FP are successful they will have a confidentiality clause in the settlement.

Personally I think FP are finished, their reputation is in tatters and anyone who buys a new one is most unfortunate as it is only matter of time before they go under.

Outrageous you say, look at their latest marketing press release about how they are going to expand to bigger and better things.

Yes exactly my point, interestingly there is only one FP at the Sydney boat show this year.

Watch this space guys.

Wow...that's pretty heady stuff.

We just finished an Exhibition at Mooloolaba Marina and we can confirm from first-hand buyers' remarks (NOT from the brokers) that FP vessels (both new and used) are still selling there, and selling very well indeed.

It would be interesting to hear from Multihull Solutions; they are FP's Worldwide Distributor of the Year for 2010, 2011 & 2012 -- Our recent observations suggest that status may extend into 2013 as well -- and we thus suspect their perspective may be quite different?! Mark Elkington, are you into CF?

The buyers we spoke to at Mooloolaba (no doubt so informed by the brokers) seemed very confident the osmosis issue related to vessels built before FP moved to vacuum resin infusion moulding...and thereafter it was no longer an issue. If, as you suggest, "the problem persists", then that is a very serious issue indeed looking ahead for FP.

We always admired a lot of things about FP vessels and certainly enjoyed sailing on quite a few of them (Lavezzi, Lipari, Mahi, Venezia, Belize) during our own vessel search. We also know plenty of owners who love their FP's, including Dragon Lady no doubt! So we sincerely hope, for the sake of future catamaran innovation and competition, the FP brand is not finished or about to go under!

[neilpride]

I can say 100% sure that 2010 to 2012 models can suffer from osmosis in short time, if i understand Oranas are build it by resin infusion, even there is a friend of us here with a Mahe, he got blisters, he got permisison from FP to make the repair under warranty, but but,,,, Fp dont cover the boatyard fees, crane, and long term in the hard, at the end , this guy spend few $$$$ in boatyard fees no matter warranty coverage, i hope for the good shake of Fp this isue is solved soon....

[muskoka]

Resin infusion is not the problem. Also know as "vacuum bagging" it is simply a construction technique used by many boat builders. It vastly reduces the ratio of resin to glass, which produces a stronger lighter hull.

The problem has to do with the newer resins used by FP when they went with this new technique. I think they need to switch to vinylester to put all of this behind them.

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Fp dont cover the boatyard fees, crane, and long term in the hard, at the end , this guy spend few $$$$ in boatyard fees no matter warranty coverage

Bollocks.

FP paid for our haul out, hardstanding fees and the repair work. They even paid for replacement custom graphics which I'd applied.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by muskoka

Bollocks.

FP paid for our haul out, hardstanding fees and the repair work. They even paid for replacement custom graphics which I'd applied.

Not in this particular case, boatyard fees payed by the owner, lawyer involved off course, i can put you in contact with the owner , is a cool guy, terrible because he is a liveaboard and spend 5 months in a dirty yard loosing time and money , boat is in the water and fix it, the boatyard bill is payed by the owner waiting if finally Fp decide to chage their mind ....

[Dragon Lady]

Just for the record I have no idea what FPs financial situation is, I assume they are still being subsidized by the French tax system and are relying on charter company sales to keep them going. Many boat builder would love to be in this position.

Also vacuum bagging and resin infusion are not the same process.

Vacuum bagging is when you use a vacuum to apply external pressure from the atmosphere or an autoclave to squeeze out excess resin from a pre saturated cloth that has been laid up on a mold to get the best resin to cloth ratio. This is considered the best practice for laminating.

Infusion molding is when you lay up the cloth dry on a mold and then pump resin in to try and wet all the cloth that you have laid up.
It is cheaper as it requires less labor and less resin is wasted.
Does it cause osmosis if not all the resin is adequately saturated?

Now another term I heard the other day is "negative ripple effect" that is when disgruntled customers go out and tell the world how unhappy they are with your product.
With the internet it is very easy to get a large audience's attention online these days.
If you want a good laugh Google "United breaks guitars" to see what I'm on about.

[Dragon Lady]

Originally Posted by muskoka

Bollocks.

FP paid for our haul out, hardstanding fees and the repair work. They even paid for replacement custom graphics which I'd applied.

Muskoka, I think you were one of the lucky ones that got in early and had their boat fixed properly by a good contractor.
You were possibly also looked after before the current warranty guy took over.
Apparently ever since Alex took over it has all gone to custard.

[ozsailer]

Hello all,
disappointingly we have decided not to proceed any further into this particular Lavezzi. The blistering and the fact the boat was in another country where I would not be able to over see the repair work was the ultimate deal killer for us. We have previously had a very very bad experience with our current boat when it was found the their was major delamintation in the hull. Lots and lots of money later and many months later we have an almost new hull and should have no issues for many many years to come. The ultimate decision came down to us not wanting to experience that again. It has not put us off Lavezzi's just that particular one.
Many thanks to all those that responded to our questions.


Greg and Sue

[Dragon Lady]

That's a shame, but you are right in staying away from other peoples problems.
I know where there is an outstanding Lavezzi for sale in Queensland the owner has done every conceivable modification if you are interested.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Hello all,
disappointingly we have decided not to proceed any further into this particular Lavezzi.

Hang in there. Somehow, someday you will find this was all meant to be...and you will end up with a vessel that's both in better condition and better suited to you!

Good luck in your continuing search.

[ozsailer]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

That's a shame, but you are right in staying away from other peoples problems.
I know where there is an outstanding Lavezzi for sale in Queensland the owner has done every conceivable modification if you are interested.

Hi DL,
is there somewhere on the net I can view this Cat.


Greg and Sue

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

Muskoka, I think you were one of the lucky ones that got in early and had their boat fixed properly by a good contractor.
You were possibly also looked after before the current warranty guy took over.
Apparently ever since Alex took over it has all gone to custard.

A good yard and contractor are essential. My only complaint with FP is that they were very slow to send the cash. We refused to do any work until the cash was physically available. It was sent to the local agent and he passed it on to us.

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Not in this particular case, boatyard fees payed by the owner, lawyer involved off course, i can put you in contact with the owner , is a cool guy, terrible because he is a liveaboard and spend 5 months in a dirty yard loosing time and money , boat is in the water and fix it, the boatyard bill is payed by the owner waiting if finally Fp decide to chage their mind ....

If the owner has an story to tell let him come aboard CF and tell it. I'm not interested in 3rd party accounts as they're usually woefully absent of facts.

We submitted an estimate to FP, they agreed and sent the money to the local agent. Once that cash was transferred to us we began the work. If the owner you're referring to began work without an estimate, agreement and cash in hand he's in trouble.

We additionally spoke with the owners of 2 other FP's who had exactly the same experience as ourselves. There was a 3rd owner who decided he'd rather sue FP - years later I believe he's still litigating.

[neilpride]

The owner is french, he dont speak english, i guess is not interested in post any comment in Cf, in fact from the last time i spoke with him he dont want to hear the word Fountaine Pajot so often, is very disapointed with the boat and is very disapointed with fP, the owner dont start any work without aprobation from FP, In fact he spend and wait with the boat in the water until Fp aprobe the boatyard estimate , for some reason out of my knowledge because i dont keep going asking why, Fp refuse to pay boatyard fees, and at the end with the boat fix it, the owner pay from their own pocket the storage fees.. end of the history...Cheers.