Lavezzi 40: Lavezzi anchor chain

[cavitation]

Hi. We bought a 2005 Lavezzi in March this year. We have had a problem with the anchor chain riding up and over the gypsy during the haul up of the anchor. It is a Lofrans 12V Cayman 1000w windlass. The chain winds up flawlessly with no load, but slips back and then re-catches on the gypsy when it is under load. The Lavezzi chain locker isn’t that deep, so during haul up I continually sweep the chain to the side to avoid pile up, but it does nothing to alleviate the problem.
After some close inspection I thought it might be the amount of calcium build up on the gypsy causing the problem. Spent an hour chipping all the calcium away and wire brushing it to look new. Same problem persisted.
Then thought that maybe the gypsy was worn out. I rang Keogh’s here in Australia and they asked about the state of the chain and then all the dimensions of the chain before shipping a new gypsy. $600 later and the new gypsy has done nothing to help.
Any other Lavezzi , Athena, Mahe, owners had this problem?
I am thinking of installing a lazy pulley on the lower forward side of the gypsy to force the chain down and contact another tooth on the gypsy. 10mm galv chain with 20kg anchor. The chain exits midship over a bow type roller.
Experience or thoughts are welcome.

[Rapanui]

We have an Athena with a Lofrans Cayman 88 and 10mm chain, and that does not slip and we anchor a lot. I assume you have checked the chain is the same spec as the gypsy, you normally measure 10 links and the dimensions are on the web.

[chris in SG]

I had exactly the same symptoms and didn't understand the problem until I ordered new chain (ordered 10mm, same as old one). Fortunately, the chandlery advised me to remove the gypsy and check the size stamped on the bronze - it was 8mm! Presumably the manufacturer specified 8mm because it's lighter and cheaper and the previous owner (charter company) was happier with 10mm but didn't change the gypsy.

So, if you have not already checked, look at the gypsy size first..

[Adonf46]

Originally Posted by cavitation

Hi. We bought a 2005 Lavezzi in March this year. We have had a problem with the anchor chain riding up and over the gypsy during the haul up of the anchor. It is a Lofrans 12V Cayman 1000w windlass. The chain winds up flawlessly with no load, but slips back and then re-catches on the gypsy when it is under load. The Lavezzi chain locker isn’t that deep, so during haul up I continually sweep the chain to the side to avoid pile up, but it does nothing to alleviate the problem.
After some close inspection I thought it might be the amount of calcium build up on the gypsy causing the problem. Spent an hour chipping all the calcium away and wire brushing it to look new. Same problem persisted.
Then thought that maybe the gypsy was worn out. I rang Keogh’s here in Australia and they asked about the state of the chain and then all the dimensions of the chain before shipping a new gypsy. $600 later and the new gypsy has done nothing to help.
Any other Lavezzi , Athena, Mahe, owners had this problem?
I am thinking of installing a lazy pulley on the lower forward side of the gypsy to force the chain down and contact another tooth on the gypsy. 10mm galv chain with 20kg anchor. The chain exits midship over a bow type roller.
Experience or thoughts are welcome.

You have the wrong link size chain

[cavitation]

Thank you all, for the input. My original thought was that the chain to gipsy ratio was mismatched. The salesman was thorough about the information he needed before sending me a new gipsy. He sent a diagram of a chain link with sections that he wanted measured. I measured them with a vernier. The info listed below are the measurements of my chain links.

PWB - Aussie chain dimensions.
S. R. F. Chain size.
10. 29:8. 34:3. 10mm

Information listed below is the invoice description of the new gipsy.

Lofrans Gypsy Only. - 10mm (276E)
- Suits Kobra, Cayman, Tigres, Royal Suits ISO 4565 or PWB 10mm Chain #631011
5kg Startrack Air Bag > OPTIONS BELOW
(1) Delivery to a commercial premises
(2) AUTHORITY TO LEAVE Without A Signature

Could a failing anchor swivel cause this problem?

[Adonf46]

Somehow I cannot see how the swivel would cause this problem , if the chain is jumping off the Gypsy wheel it is because the chain is not “ sitting” deep enough into the wheel , this can only be caused by the chain link being too long for the wheel .
Cheers

[cavitation]

Hi Adonf.
My peculiar-nutty type mind won’t drop the bone until it has worked out the symptoms and results of a problem. I feel confident in the thoroughness that the salesman and I handled the order of the gypsy, so I am trying to look at the problem from a different perspective.
Most of the bays we dropped anchor in the Whitsundays are fairly shallow and we generally use 6.1 rode. Just wondering if the side to side, and tide swinging movement of the boat is rolling the chain up on the sea bed. I would guess the job of the swivel is to release this twisted state as the chain is being hauled up. I’m still guessing here so correct me if I’m wrong... if the swivel doesn’t swivel, and the chain is still twisted under load when it comes in over the gypsy, the pitch would be shortened and the chain would lift or roll up, out of the gypsy?
Apologies in advance🤪

[Dsanduril]

We've had this problem, also with 10mm chain. We don't use a swivel and on occasion a twist in the chain can cause this behavior. But in the end it was simply worn chain. There was about a 10m section of chain that was the worst, from 10m to 20m from the anchor. The part that is always down and probably the part that moves around the most through the sand. As a temporary fix we end-for-ended the chain, but that still left a marginal section of chain. New chain resolved the issue.

Get out the vernier again and start measuring individual links, especially in problem areas. Compare that with a link that stays in the locker all the time. If you get much difference in length, width, wire diameter, or anything else I'd guess that the chain is worn.

[Adonf46]

Well I guess that to prove your theory right you will need to spend money and buy anew swivel 😩👎. I am still very sceptical about the swivel being at the heart of your issue andI am still convinced that the faulty bit here is the chain .
Cheers
🤗👍🇫🇷

[Rapanui]

We do not have a swivel and anchor a lot and we have never had a problem with the chain jumping the gypsy. The anchoring arrangements on an Athena are pretty similar if not identical to a Lavezzi.
I don't think measuring 1 link is sufficiently accurate to determine if the chain is suitable for the Gypsy, you need to measure 10 links.
There are 2 gypsy's for the Cayman, ISO 4565 and DIN 766. You need to take the gypsy off to see what it is stamped. Here are Jimmy Greens dimensions for the different standards and makes:
How to measure Anchor Chain

We measure 10 links because, in practice, it is difficult to measure one link accurately enough.
The links should be laid out flat and pulled tight.
Measure from the outside edge to outside edge.
Compare the measurements with the list below:
AQUA 4 and AQUA7

6mm DIN766 = 190mm
7mm DIN766 = 228mm
8mm DIN766 = 250mm
10mm DIN766 = 295mm
10mm ISO = 315mm
12mm ISO = 375mm

5/16" US Specification AQUA4 = 275mmTitan Grade 40

8mm DIN766 = 253mm
10mm DIN766 = 297mm
10mm ISO = 316mm
Lofrans Grade 40

8mm DIN766 = 253mm
10mm DIN766 = 298mm
10mm ISO = 318mm

[Adonf46]

Well done , extremely thorough 👌👍👏 a lot of people think that all 10 mm chains are the same .

[cavitation]

Marvelous. Im getting a better feel for the subject. When I measured one chain link we were at berth in Mackay... so anchor up. I measured a link near the swivel, so I am coming to the realisation that I missed the mark.😁

[Adonf46]

Do let us know what the final outcome is 🤗👌👍🇫🇷

[Even Keels]

Yes my 2007 does the same. I think you are on the right idea the chain does not bend around the gypsy enough for high grip under load. Very annoying especially as i sail single handed and deploying and retreiving the anchor is the most difficult job to do on a Levezzi . The design of foredeck rather than bow anchoring has got knobs on it .

[Rapanui]

The things I would add based on our Athena with a Lofrans Cayman 88 and 10mm ISO chain are:

• You need to constantly clear the chain and redistribute it around the anchor box otherwise the drop is insufficient and the chain can jump. I flake the chain with one hand while operating the up button with the other.
• You need a guide that ensures that the chain drops vertically and cannot be pulled sideways, otherwise the chain can jump or come off the side of the gypsy. There is a rectangular hole in the windlass plinth for the former and we have a SS tube rolling over some SS studding secured by 2 eyebolts fore and aft on the plinth for preventing sideways force.

Ideally, you need a deeper anchor well so that it can self stow, but that would require a power bulge under the bridgedeck or an above deck windlass, neither of which is particularly attractive.