Orana 44: Orana survey

[dimal196]

Hey! I watch Orana 44 with a survey, there are a number of questions about the hull: 1 in the nose there was a blow that seemed to be repaired with high quality. There were problems either with osmosis of roofing felts with delamination, repairs were paid for and controlled by the FP shipyard. Now the moisture meter shows pointwise high humidity in the depth. Survey says. That there is moisture in the sandwich. There was also some kind of blow from behind on the keels. There is a detachment of two bulkheads under the floorboards on one side and a cracked bulkhead under the floorboards on the other. The survey did not find any deamination of the hull. In general, "there was a blow, but the body withstood." How critical is all this for further operation?

[Manateeman]

Just Google Orana 44 Problems. Several interesting posts.
Happy trails to you.
The manatee crew.

[CaptainRivet]

How long was the boat on the yard before the moisture readings?
First 2 pictures are bad, you can assume that the moisture in the body comes from the damage. That was not properly repaired at all.
Check al, other bulkheads, stringers, keels… for further damage, dismantle all needed boards or covers for that. If there is a big crack like this you will most likely find more. Don‘t rely on the survey for that
Good is that FP uses foam core, if that would be in balsa core a big red flag.

[dimal196]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

How long was the boat on the yard before the moisture readings?
First 2 pictures are bad, you can assume that the moisture in the body comes from the damage. That was not properly repaired at all.
Check al, other bulkheads, stringers, keels… for further damage, dismantle all needed boards or covers for that. If there is a big crack like this you will most likely find more. Don‘t rely on the survey for that
Good is that FP uses foam core, if that would be in balsa core a big red flag.

The boat was on the shore for a year. The first two pictures show the separation of the bulkheads under the floorboards from the side as a result of an impact from below. presumably dropped while climbing ashore. During the survey, the entire boat was thoroughly examined, no more such damage was found. the moisture meter showed moisture only in the depth of the sandwich, not in the laminate.

[boatpoker]

Suggest you learn a little more about Moisture Meters ...
Moisture Meter Mythology and Flir thermal imager

[SailFastTri]

Moisture meters are unreliable, and only an indicator of whether further investigation should be done. I have no idea what is meant by "moisture only in the depth of the sandwich, not in the laminate." but moisture in the sandwich is worse than moisture in the laminate skins.

In response to @CaptainRivet - Whether foam core or balsa, moisture can lead to delamination, especially in areas where freezing temps are likely to be encountered. Wet cores can be repaired, at a cost of course. Most boats are likely to develop leaks over time, so the extent of moisture and location correlate to difficulty of repair. The estimated cost should factor into a buyer's decision.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Moisture meters are unreliable, and only an indicator of whether further investigation should be done. I have no idea what is meant by "moisture only in the depth of the sandwich, not in the laminate." but moisture in the sandwich is worse than moisture in the laminate skins.

In response to @CaptainRivet - Whether foam core or balsa, moisture can lead to delamination, especially in areas where freezing temps are likely to be encountered. Wet cores can be repaired, at a cost of course. Most boats are likely to develop leaks over time, so the extent of moisture and location correlate to difficulty of repair. The estimated cost should factor into a buyer's decision.

Kinda true regarding moisture meter but gives you good indication…

That there is moisture in the depth simply means they didn‘t dry out the underwater ship properly before repair and sealed the wet core during repair. All to common as insurance, time is money, patch it together fast and quick.
Correct:
Moisture got into the core when damaged, so strip the underwatership to bare fiberglass in a wider area around the damage, dry it out and only start to repair when all is dry.
Good thing with foam, the core doesn‘t rot like with balsa and if your cat is not in area with freezing temps it can be simply fixed by putting cat on dry dock, strip underwatership to bare fiberglass and let it dry for 3 month, put 5 layers of 2k expoxy and then 6 layers of coopercoat and you are done for next 10years

If the survey doesn’t tell more damage that doesn’t mean there is non, they normally survey just what you can see without dismantling anything. But with a damage like this you need access to all parts of the hull, especially the bulkheads.
Why: because FP only glues them in and compared to fiberglass the glue is super hard and doesn‘t flex like the rest of the cat. And with the impact that glue cracks but you can‘t see it. You can only identify this by taking a little hammer and taping on each centimeter of each bulkhead and you will hear we’re it is separated. Easy to fix, just take out, glue and add corner laminate to each bulkhead. Afterwards the cat is better then new and much more stable then from factory as the laminated bulkhead can flex.
Maybe 3% of all surveyors will find this…because they don‘t know or because it doesn’t justify the enormous effort that is needed to reach every bulkhead, so they don‘t come up with it…

How do I know? I have exactly this on the Lavezzi I bought.
I have a great surveyor who really knows his stuff and goes the extra mile(not cheap 3k for a survey, you get what you pay for). He found all the insurance surveyor didn‘t find, the glued but separated bulkheads and where they repaired and trapped the moisture in the core.
Got a huge discount and insurance of former owner pays all the damage my surveyor found to fix this what I am just doing now. Have a good fiberglass specialist who knows Lavezzis well. Rest of cat was great and we can fix the weak known spots during repair, so in the end better then one without this damage

But if you don‘t know, it’s a 40000Euro surprise