[SOLD] 42' cat ketch ocean voyager $39.9k

[Ronald Rogala]

I think enough info has been explained here that I don't wish to elaborate further. I find this conversation exhausting. Kind of like pushing a rock up hill. Time for me to let it fall. I will now only respond to questions or inquiries about the boat. No more convincing for me. A boat like mine at that price shouldn't need any convincing. Cheers all!

[Ronald Rogala]

Originally Posted by Cadence

This thread has been nothing but BS. You can't beat a dead horse.

Bravo! I couldn't agree more. Time to end this fiasco.

[Paulsan]

We all found this conversation exhausting.


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[Paulsan]

I will now only respond to questions or inquiries about the boat.

I also wish you well as regards the the sale. Reading this thread from the beginning really highlights the levels some people will go to... This thread may even be used in a psych class at some point as it clearly and eloquently outlines the ' pitch ' of a pitcher. AKA Salesman.


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[1churchmouse]

To me it's been very interesting! I would buy the boat in a heartbeat if I could afford it. I'm sure it will all work out eventually.



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[smj]

Originally Posted by Ronald Rogala

Spoken like a true diplomat.
Actually, it hasn't been that much trouble. The buyer got an Atty which forced me to get one. Then about 10 days of Atty exchanges and then silence. That's all that really happened.
Fear and caution seem to be the same thing to me.
Good day

If that isn't much trouble to you then I think I would be a fearful and cautious buyer when it comes to your boat.
Good day and good luck

[stillbuilding]

Couple of queries;

Is she a tender or stiff when sailing?

What is headroom?

Deck is sound?

Any osmosis?

Settee backs look very vertical - any space for lumbar padding?

Electrics 24 or 12 vdc?

Thanks
Richard


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[Sojurnr]

Hello,


I've been told that unstayed fiberglass and carbon fiber masts need to be removed and x-rayed periodically to investigate for the possibility of otherwise invisible damage. Have these masts been so examined? If so, how long ago? What were the results?


Thanks.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Sojurnr

Hello,


I've been told that unstayed fiberglass and carbon fiber masts need to be removed and x-rayed periodically to investigate for the possibility of otherwise invisible damage. Have these masts been so examined? If so, how long ago? What were the results?


Thanks.

Xray inspection requires acces to both sides of the section being examined. Expensive and not practical for most masts.

An acoustic signature of the mast after it has been proof loaded would provide a good baseline. But this is not something you achieve outside of a good lab.

Ultrasound inspection is possible but not cheap.

Im the motorsport industry we life most structural composite components. At end of life we destroy them.

Carbon is particularly problematic as it fails catastrophically. Especially where the specific stiffness has been maximised.

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[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Sojurnr

Hello,


I've been told that unstayed fiberglass and carbon fiber masts need to be removed and x-rayed periodically to investigate for the possibility of otherwise invisible damage. Have these masts been so examined? If so, how long ago? What were the results?


Thanks.

I find unstayed masts appealing in concept and in applications on some boats. The materials they are made from is a good thing to consider (wood, carbon fibre, etc.). I am no expert and I am no materials engineer.

I found the issues related to this type of mast have been discussed on this forum and others. Here is a quick Google Custom Search within this forum alone of the term "carbon fibre mast."


http://www.google.com/cse?cx=0063947...ast&gsc.page=1


http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...sts-12995.html

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by Sojurnr

Hello,


I've been told that unstayed fiberglass and carbon fiber masts need to be removed and x-rayed periodically to investigate for the possibility of otherwise invisible damage. Have these masts been so examined? If so, how long ago? What were the results?


Thanks.

most Freedom masts were designed by Eric Sponberg
hes still around, predominantly on boat design fora but also
Sponberg Yacht Design Inc.

Its true CF masts need an inspection periodically
Nonsuch which also use freestanding rigs suggest bi-annually

If problems are found its usually circumferential cracking in the outer laminate of the masts, or failure points appearing in mounted hardware. They can almost always be repaired in removing the outer layer resin and recovered with a fibreglass sock from rocketry retailers, then epoxied in place. There is a repair program offered here
http://sponbergyachtdesign.com/FREED...T%20REPAIR.pdf

Freedom rigs in particular depended on the mast buoyancy as part of their righting moment. Personally I prefer free standing cat rigs and Im still interested despite some obvious failures. Gougeon Brothers Inc (WEST System) also tackled wing spars but using a wood core, I would probably look at that with conventional tracks goosenecks and booms.

[Ronald Rogala]

Originally Posted by Paulsan

I will now only respond to questions or inquiries about the boat.

I also wish you well as regards the the sale. Reading this thread from the beginning really highlights the levels some people will go to... This thread may even be used in a psych class at some point as it clearly and eloquently outlines the ' pitch ' of a pitcher. AKA Salesman.


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Ha ha. Very funny. I think it was an exercise in futility. It also shows the fear level of buyers and how easily they are spooked. I think many are so afraid they seriously limit their own functionality in life. As they say, there are doer's, then there are dreamers and this is a fact of life.

[Ronald Rogala]

Originally Posted by stillbuilding

Couple of queries;

Is she a tender or stiff when sailing?

What is headroom?

Deck is sound?

Any osmosis?

Settee backs look very vertical - any space for lumbar padding?

Electrics 24 or 12 vdc?

Thanks
Richard


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Hello Richard.
She is rather stiff. With 5-9" draft and 3600kg of ballest, that's a lot of leverage. The masts are short and the mainsails have big roaches which keep the center of effort of the sails very low. Plus the tips of the masts will flex and spill wind in gusts that make the boat very forgiving in gusts.

Deck is sound. Side decks are not cored and cabin top is cored with 3/4" mahogany planking - not plywood. Needs to be very strong to support the masts.

No osmosis in hull or soft spots in the deck. This is a 1996 boat.

Setee backs have about a 10-12 degree angle. Looks pretty normal to me. There is room to increase lumbar padding if needed, but a pillow would be much easier.

Boat is set up in 12 volts.
Good day.

[Ronald Rogala]

Originally Posted by Sojurnr

Hello,


I've been told that unstayed fiberglass and carbon fiber masts need to be removed and x-rayed periodically to investigate for the possibility of otherwise invisible damage. Have these masts been so examined? If so, how long ago? What were the results?


Thanks.

Greetings. I do not know anything about if these masts have ever been inspected. Its not something I would ever think of doing unless I liked to throw away money. I have not heard of many mast failures. However, drilling holes to add hardware and radar etc is not recommended. It would create a stress concentration, a place to start a failure. Fiberglass and carbon fiber will bend like crazy before breaking. When was the last time you broke a fishing rod or a batten...never? In 48 years of sailing and owner of 30+ boats, I can say never.

[Ronald Rogala]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

most Freedom masts were designed by Eric Sponberg
hes still around, predominantly on boat design fora but also
Sponberg Yacht Design Inc.

Its true CF masts need an inspection periodically
Nonsuch which also use freestanding rigs suggest bi-annually

If problems are found its usually circumferential cracking in the outer laminate of the masts, or failure points appearing in mounted hardware. They can almost always be repaired in removing the outer layer resin and recovered with a fibreglass sock from rocketry retailers, then epoxied in place. There is a repair program offered here
http://sponbergyachtdesign.com/FREED...T%20REPAIR.pdf

Freedom rigs in particular depended on the mast buoyancy as part of their righting moment. Personally I prefer free standing cat rigs and Im still interested despite some obvious failures. Gougeon Brothers Inc (WEST System) also tackled wing spars but using a wood core, I would probably look at that with conventional tracks goosenecks and booms.

The masts are painted. Paint and gelcoats is much more brittle than fiberglass laminate. I have owned many boats that have had severe gel coat cracking ( especially in the hull or decks) where the laminate was thin with a lot of flexing. Its just cosmetic. Sometimes the mfgr applies too thick of gel coat, and it will crack easier than thin gel coat. Paint is the same. If there is some damage to a painted mast, it will be easily seen in the paint. Even if the paint is cracked , it probably doesn't mean there is a serious problem. It just means there was a lot of flexing in that area. But it does show a good place to look at more closely. Just a run up the mast is all that's needed to inspect. Its silly all these sophisticated ways to check a mast. Sounds like some people created a business to make money from fearful people - like most people in this thread.