For Sale or Trade: Ferro Ingrid Ketch 47' LOA For Sale Or Trade

[Bluegrass]

Borvaprops - Your cruising license was issue to you by U.S. Customs and Border Protection, a federal agency. The State of North Carolina has its own rules (laws), weakly enforced as they may be. The North Carolina rules seem to indicate all vessels berth in North Carolina for more than 90 days need North Carolina registration. This absolutely applies to any US vessel in North Carolina. It also seems to apply to vessels under a cruising permit. I doubt it is enforced much however.

[Bluegrass]

I talked to both the USCG and North Carolina today.

It appear the former Certificate of Documentation number is 1123712. That record shows the correct name, length and port, but identifies the boat as fiberglass - so that might not be the correct number. If it is the correct number, the USCG documentation expired in 2005.

The USCG told me that to return this boat to USCG documentation I would need to submit a notarized bill of sale from each owner from the last documented owner through the current seller, the application and the fee. I could then get the boat returned to documentation. That might be quite a chore.

North Carolina was very helpful but the current owner hasn't provided me his name or the North Carolina registration number. If I had those, they could look-up the boat and see what status they have. The hull identification number listed on the expired USCG Certificate of Documentation was not in the North Carolina registration records.

I'm surprised I haven't heard from the seller considering I'm probably the most likely buyer - I know all about the boat, I looked at it when it was for sale by a broker in 2010, and I still have the YachtWorld ad sheet. Since then it was sold on Ebay and then at least one more time apparently.

[ijiraq]

Originally Posted by Bluegrass

Then the seller should document or otherwise title the boat in Canada so a buyer can acquire title. If it were to be documented in Canada, to then acquire title in the U.S., properly approved CPB forms would be required along with the Canadian title signed over.

If your boat has been berthed for more than 90 consecutive days in NC, it is required to be registered in NC. I doubt they run around checking that very much.

I spoke with Transport Canada yesterday. They said I could not register the vessel in Canada for several reasons:
-The boat has not landed at a port in Canada (and):
-It is already titled to me in NC
-State tax and county/local luxury taxes would go to the state where the vessel resides if the vessel stays for a long period of time (usually from 3 months to 1 year)

-A Transport Canada approved designate would have to measure and calculate the vessel dimensions/tonnage IN PERSON (this doesn't make sense to me, but you have to pay the guy, so I guess its a make-work project)

-The vessel would have to be legally UNDOCUMENTED in the USCG registry -which he said will prove next to impossible for me to do and could take years. This is a common issue he said, and often goes unresolved.

When/if I brought it to Canada:
-I would owe a minimum of %15-17% on the sale price in taxes because the boat was not built in Canada -which could be based on MARKET PRICE due to the uniqueness of the vessel (not a common builder, so they would base value on assessed market price in Canada if they felt that the bill of sale amount looked too low. Based on size, engine type, vessel condition, taxes could be based on the mean value of similar vessels, he said likely around $60,000 on evaluation, they always go with the highest mean (Toronto harbor, avg selling price kind of thing).

-The vessel would still (technically) have to be UNDOCUMENTED with the USCG. He did say that without the original owner or their authority signing off, this would be difficult, regardless of the lapse of documentation, you are not supposed to let it "lapse". He felt that if it was USCG documented it is always in effect until legally undocumented. He said that the boat has to meet stricter safety standards by law if documented.

They also hinted that if I were to import the boat, my best bet would be to try just handing over a notarized bill of sale. It would be the easiest way to proceed, and it is generally all they look for. He said most people drive the boat to the border, show the bill of sale, pay the taxes owed, and no issues. I would assume sailing across would be the same deal...

If I sold the boat to someone, and only provided a notarized bill of sale, then I would be accountable if the vessel was not legally my property to sell, and possibly accountable to individual lien holders -depending on local laws. He said that if I was sure the boat was mine, there would be no problems.

The only time the USCG stuff would become an issue is if I intended on commercial use of the vessel. I would get into seriously hot water for not having a current and inspected life raft, for example...

[1churchmouse]

How old are the photos?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[ijiraq]

The date is on the photos. Bluegrass; I sent you the info via PM. You didn't get it?

[ijiraq]

THe USCG documentation is right, except that whoever reg'd it put the wrong material. I wonder if this was intentional or accidental...

[ijiraq]

My Name is Cory Buott (btw)

Originally Posted by Bluegrass

I talked to both the USCG and North Carolina today.

It appear the former Certificate of Documentation number is 1123712. That record shows the correct name, length and port, but identifies the boat as fiberglass - so that might not be the correct number. If it is the correct number, the USCG documentation expired in 2005.

The USCG told me that to return this boat to USCG documentation I would need to submit a notarized bill of sale from each owner from the last documented owner through the current seller, the application and the fee. I could then get the boat returned to documentation. That might be quite a chore.

North Carolina was very helpful but the current owner hasn't provided me his name or the North Carolina registration number. If I had those, they could look-up the boat and see what status they have. The hull identification number listed on the expired USCG Certificate of Documentation was not in the North Carolina registration records.

I'm surprised I haven't heard from the seller considering I'm probably the most likely buyer - I know all about the boat, I looked at it when it was for sale by a broker in 2010, and I still have the YachtWorld ad sheet. Since then it was sold on Ebay and then at least one more time apparently.

[ijiraq]

did you get my PM bluegrass?