Crew Wanted for Norfolk to BVI

[Chuteman]

Guys:
Looks like TilMonday's crew search has opened up a very interesting topic but his search has gotten swamped in the midst.
I'll start another thread under the same category to keep it going & expand.

[hellosailor]

Sean, labor law is different from admiralty law (and the Jones Act). You may recall there were issues over whether friends could chip in for fuel 20 years ago, because paying for fuel was "consideration" at that time. And although I don't remember the case, I remember that was actually used to invoke something like the Jones Act and liability, enough so that eventually the USCG clarified "incidental" and sharing as being allowed among friends.
But, for a complete stranger? Airfare ain't lunch, it's "consideration". And one reason I ask is because under the documentation laws, assuming that cat is a documented vessel, IIRC repatriation is only required/provided for members of the compensated "crew", as opposed to passengers.

I'm not pretending to practice law here, only suggesting these are issues that have really gone to the courts and probably will again. As a Bronx jury if a $300 airline ticket is "substantive consideration" and I'll bet they say "Yes".

Oddly enough, last time I went online looking into vessel documentation, I couldn't find anything about repatriation--even though I know it WAS tied in not so long ago.

Either way I don't think UNH or other students will be clamoring to go--that could conflict with midterm time.<G>

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by ssullivan

The fact that your boat is worth a quarter of a million dollars might be my first clue as to your financial standing.

Irrelevant to the discussion. Playing the class envy game when someone SOLD their house to go Cruising is pretty bad

Originally Posted by ssullivan

Waiving the old six-pac at me, huh? I'd hate to have a "who's is bigger" match with you regarding tickets and tonnage, so I won't even address that one.

You just did?

I have had total strangers on my boat with me before and have been the stranger on a boat before....maybe some people just like boating/sailing....and are not hung up on the $ aspects. Just last weekend I spent about $300 in helping out a couple I didn't even know bring a new boat from Santa Barbara, Ca to Morro Bay, Ca. They fed me well and if they would have offored to pay my expenses, I would have declined...why...becaue I could afford it and I was BEING NICE...$ isn't all that matters in live.

[kimberlite]

You will get more people than you need and they will pay their own airfare.
i have done it many times with great success.
fair winds,
eric

[pmartin]

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[tafelice]

What a hot topic. I don't understand what those that oppose daves efforts to get free help object to. It is after all Dave's gig. I just bought a boat but prior to that I was quite eager to get a free ride and more cruising experience, and would have paid my airfare if it were possible. Any crew needed ad I ever answered I answered honestly as to my experience and skills. I have posted a "crew wanted" ad myself for crew who would trade their help and experience for a ride along with me. Those that have responded to my ad were usually were wanting to keep their miles and experience up for their license and those that want an introduction to cruising and those that just wanted a different way to travel. If I weren't busy I would go with Dave in a minute if he'd have me.

[yotphix]

ditto tafelice. Since when did sailing become such an enormous inconvenience that you must be compensated. Sailing is really a bit like sex. One way or another you will always pay for it! (oh, and by the way, I am emloyed as yacht crew. When I do deliveries on power yachts, I charge large. Sailing I take as it comes! Not everyone thinks that a sailing holiday is no more than margueritas on the hook with a little inconvenient motoring between anchorages.

[The_Bean]

I know it's an old thread... but I just found it.. and had to respond.

Originally Posted by tilmonday

Hi,
I am looking for a couple of sailors who have some blue water experience to help me deliver my 43' Voyage catamaran to the BVI. We will be departing Norfolk the first week of November. You will be responsible for your travel plans all other expenses will be covered. If you are interested you can send me an email with your experience.
thanks,
Dave
tilmonday@juno.com

The more I read in these forums, the more I start wondering if I should even continue visiting them, because there appears to be a lot of arrogance, animosity and jealousy among a few of the members.... many of whom simply are not able to read or simply misconstrue the posts and thus lose the plot from the beginning.
Forums should be a great way to learn from one another, divulge information, and offer/ ask for assistance, irrespective of their financial standing. Unfortunately, in some of the threads that I have visited, people are taken to task for the most mundane things... mostly because they are perceived as wealthy... just like this thread.

"tilmonday" was extremely clear in his initial post, in that he was looking for someone to assist him on his voyage. He clearly stated that travel expenses would not be for his account but that all other items would be covered. Seems pretty simple enough to understand... but no... the man gets told he is "rich" and should be able to afford an air ticket, simply because he has an expensive boat. An entire debate starts up as to how he should spring for airfare etc. and the whole thread goes totally off topic.

Why ridicule the man? If his offer did not meet with your requirements / expectations, why even respond?

He did not ask for "qualified" people, merely for someone with experience.... in otherwords, someone who has sailed before.... Not a qualified skipper. I am sure that if he wanted "qulified" people, he would have expected to pay something, and would obviously have done so gladly. He could most probably have done the trip on his own, being qualified himself, but instead he was offering someone a free trip, maybe even for the company... where they could gain experience / miles in return for helping out on his boat. This is common practise and some people do this to simply get around the world, some do it for experience, some do it to have a cheap holiday and some do it just because they love sailing, but cannot afford a boat of their own.... as long as their food is covered.... hell some would even be happy to pay for the trip!!!

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Just last weekend I spent about $300 in helping out a couple I didn't even know bring a new boat from Santa Barbara, Ca to Morro Bay, Ca. They fed me well and if they would have offored to pay my expenses, I would have declined...why...becaue I could afford it and I was BEING NICE...$ isn't all that matters in live.

The above comment is, in a nutshell, what I believed the sailing fraternity to be about... Helping one another!! Hats off to SV THIRD DAY for showing the true spirit of sailing. The ocean is a big place and sailors around the world should look out for one another. It's not all about who is rich and who is poor... the ocean certainly does not differentiate. If you can help... help... if you can't... don't. It's that simple. There is no need to be derogatory.

The facts are that some have more than others. This is simply life and one has to deal with it. Some people can afford a $1M boat and others can only afford a $10K boat. So what!!! Either way, both are sailors and both ultimately love the sea. Both can and normally do help one another in some way... and surely... that's what it's about!!

My wife and I are new to sailing and we will soon be gaining valuable hands on knowledge from seasoned veterans, some we expect to pay for and some we will no doubt get for free... but once we are qualified we will also go out of our way to help others who love the sea and we will do anything within reason to help them realise their dreams if we are in a position to... parting with the experiences we have had, knowledge we have gained etc. even if it means giving them a free ride on our "expensive" boat when we need a hand... or giving them our free assistance to show them the ropes on their new boat one day.

If I was not busy selling up all my businesses and properties to be able to afford go sailing in comfort... and if I had the time to join "tilmonday"... just to gain valuable knowledge and learn more for the day when I take delivery of my new boat... which is very soon... I would gladly have flown out at my expense for the experience.... if he would have had me.

[5user5]

I have never gotten a free ride and it does not look like the sailing community is going to give me one either, so i would do it.

[Mustang Sally]

Dave,
Steve Black who runs the Caribbean 1500 has a crew list a mile long. As a matter of fact you may want to join the 1500, we did in 2006 and had a great time sailing down with 75 other boats. Also check OPO, Offshore Passage Opportunities, they have a website and people who want to do this.

[CharlesFCook]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Sean, wouldn't paying for airfare (i.e. "compensation" of any kind) make the casual crew into formally paid crew under the Jones Act and liability laws?

It's one thing to share a ride, quite another once money changes hands.

And you never know...there must be decent sailors out there who'd rather pay their own airfare than charter a boat for a short vacation.

I don't think many small boat owners think about their liability with the Jones Act. I think Maintenance and Cure could get pricy.

Jones Act Maintenance and Cure – Worker’s Compensation for Injured Maritime Workers & Seaman Talk to Lawyer / Attorney, Houston, Texas

Jones Act Seaman, Maritime Worker Seaman Status- Maritime Law Requirements Member of Crew Talk to Lawyer / Attorney, Houston, Texas

[Moonchaser2304]

While I have sailed for 30 years, and powerboated for 10 years before that, except for the protected waters of the BVI's it's been inland waters, so I look at crewing as a learning opportunity, but just like the owner needs to carefully pick his crew so does a less skillled crew person seeking experience, need to carefully pick when he/she crews and when not to....I would not want to be on a 2 week open water delivery with someone where I do not know their skills or on a route with limited ability to get emergency medical support should it be needed, for example.
As a "more average" sailor, I would need to feel comfortable about the talents of the skipper, and the specific trip, in order to risk MY safety.

I just crewed for a very talented sailor/owner to move his C&C 40 from Kelsey Bay, Vancouver Island, BC to Seattle, it's winter home. I paid my own air fare, share of the provisioning and also bought dinner a couple times for the owner/first mate. I looked at it as a rare opportunity for me to learn the Pacific NW waterways from a sailor with 20 years experience in that area, and it was beautiful, we had a lot of fun, and boy did I learn. Now I know how to go vacation/charter there if my wife and I can sometime. As many of you likely know the tidal flows, potential for rough crossings, and underwater hazards in some anchorages in the NW is only learned from years of experience in that area. What a great "training week" it was for me to be with someone with that much experience! I thanked him for the experience...true I was the least talented sailor of the 3 but I am something more than just "rail meat".

There are SOOO many people with truly professional qualifications for open water crusing, so for us "more average" sailors, being invited to crew is an honor, and a great learning opportunity. Airfare is a small price to pay to be part of the experience in new waters and on a different boat, it it is a good fit for both the person deciding to crew or not, as well as the skipper needing crew.



For truly qualified Captains and crew more experienced in dozens of deliveries, sure mabye paying airfare is more justified, but for more "average" sailors like myself, if I know the trip is within the skippers experience, emergency medical support would reasonably be possible should it be needed, and the trip is reasonably within MY skill level, (in other words a good fit for both the skipper and the potential crew member) airfare is a cheap price to pay for the learning experience.

eh?

[GordMay]

When filing an “Inward Declaration” (application for Cruising Permit/Licence), how should one best declare "guests" (to avoid possible legal liabilities & complications), on the Crew & Passenger manifest ?
Are we best to declare guests as “Crew”, or as “Passenger” ?

[will@polyplanar.com]

Having made this trip a dozen times I can tell you it can be true misery with a generaly great finish. You should spend some time with potiential crewmembers and check refferences. If you are intending to check in at Tortola I believe the crew will need return tickets in hand. You might be able to avoid this detail by going to USVI first.

[conrad]

Wow amazing people need to do more sailing and less typing. I agree with Bean and Dave have a great trip if I had the time and money I would be more than glad to help you out. If someone can afford to pay great if someone just asks for help so be it..........People certainly do make tooooooooo much of a big deal out of things on ALL these forums not just this one. I am not required to read them and those other folks are not required to sail with Dave and pay their air fare Very Interesting I do love sailing and have a great sail.