380 S2: ARC 2015

[Polux]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

how much do you think knowing your boat well, adds to performance ?

Leading L38 suggests skills are large component of performance. As people sell boat after couple of years, they cant even get to know the boat properly.

I remember seeing someone on Seawind 1000, really skilled, what a difference that makes even against much larger boats. But I think he owned it more than 10 years.

When sailors are good they will sail well any boat...just some time needed to adapt and that's it.

At another level, the highest, you have a very recent example: François Gabart, a professional top solo sailor that won recently the Transat Jacques Favre on the ultimate class, big maxi trimarans.

That's the guy that won the last Vendee Globe, the more important race on the IMOCA class. (Open 60's). That's what the Gabart had sailed on the last years till he put the hands on a Maxi trimaran racer, a bit more than two months ago, to win on the first race he made against tough competition.

Sure the guy is probably the best solo sailor around but that is relevant for what you say: he should have taken years to master a big maxi trimaran and a lot of time to get used to the new boat, but no, that was not the case. A lot of years ago, while still a kid, he was world junior champion on Tornado, but from a Tornado to a maxi racing trimaran goes a huge difference.

Of course a good sailor would need more time to adapt himself to a new boat than a super sailor like Gabart, but more time is not several years, depending on how much he sails the new boat

[Polux]

The Lagoon 38 continues to make a great race, now with medium lighter winds. Anybody knows how many are the crew? What downwind sails they have?

It is a good time to look at the positions now, when the one that is leading (by far) is already near Cabo Verde:

That one is a performance monohull cruiser, a luxury one, kind of an Oyster on speeds, a Shipman 62. That's a great cruising boat and I remember that the first Shipman, 10 years ago or so, won the European boat of the year award in its class.

The second one is a X612, a 20 year old performance monohull cruiser. Then comes a group of 3, a 33 year old Swan 651, a 15 year old performance cat, a Catana 473 and a new Fountain Pajot 67 Victoria.

Then Isolated a new performance cruiser, an Azuree 46.

Then comes the group with Django and his Lagoon 38, a Oyster 575 and a 25 year old Baltic 52. Then other group with a performance Catana 582, a Halberg Rassy 54 and a Leopard 44.

Close another group with a Leopard 48, a Southerly 49, a Moody 54, a Sun Odyssey 49 and a Oceanis 54.

Follows another group with a Oyster 545, a Lagoon 52, a Oyster 54, a Sun Odyssey 54DS, a Sun Odissey 45.2 a 36ft Albin Stratus, another Fountain Pajot Victoria 67, a Beneteau Oceannis 44cc, A fountain Pajot Sanya 57, a Wauquiez pilot salon 40, a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 439 and a Lagoon 400.

Next group with a Island Packet 420, an old Laurin 32 (congratulations to them for a fantastic passage), and Hunter 42, a Halberg Rassy 352, a Comodoro 51, a Beneteau 473, a Bavaria 36, a Lagoon 400S2 and a Bavaria 38.

These are the ones ahead till a bit more than half the boats. Only a mention to the slower ones: A Lagoon 420, a Catalina 42 and a Dix 38.

A pity not to have more performance mono hulls on the ARC+. On the big one (ARC, a direct transat) it will be easier to compare their performance with the one of cats and performance cats. Here the smaller we have is the Azuree 46.

World Cruising Club - Fleet Viewer

[arsenelupiga]

in some other thread i believe we discussed performance and pretty sure is dyango, saying that his L38 matches fatory polars as he optimised sail shape via all sorts of barber haulers for different conditions. There is lots of scope for that on cat.

shpman 63 polars appear full of fantasy and boat should be much further if close to reality

L38 polars

[Polux]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

in some other thread i believe we discussed performance and pretty sure is dyango, saying that his L38 matches fatory polars as he optimised sail shape via all sorts of barber haulers for different conditions. There is lots of scope for that on cat.

shpman 63 polars appear full of fantasy and boat should be much further if close to reality

L38 polars

I am not sure if I understand you: Sure the Lagoon 38 is very well sailed and leads the classification on its group in compensated time. The Shipman 63 is being well sailed too, since it is also leading in compensated time in its group.

Maybe you think the Shipman 63 is one of those performance cruisers that it is much more of a race boat than a cruising boat, but that it is not the case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q90gYSp2pDQ

[Steve_C]

He would seem to be doing better than the polar s suggest. I show him currently doing 7.2 knots in 9.9 knots of wind going very close to dead down wind. Impressive indeed if he is only using sails.

I would like to know what he has up? and if he is using a parasailor or a spinnaker.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Steve_C

He would seem to be doing better than the polar s suggest. I show him currently doing 7.2 knots in 9.9 knots of wind going very close to dead down wind. Impressive indeed if he is only using sails.

I would like to know what he has up? and if he is using a parasailor or a spinnaker.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1804792

[Sun Flyer]

Django is probably flying a big masthead spinnaker in light winds.

Sent from my YOGA Tablet 2 Pro-1380F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Polux

I am not sure if I understand you: Sure the Lagoon 38 is very well sailed and leads the classification on its group in compensated time. The Shipman 63 is being well sailed too, since it is also leading in compensated time in its group.

Maybe you think the Shipman 63 is one of those performance cruisers that it is much more of a race boat than a cruising boat, but that it is not the case:

it sure is pricey. Inside comfort doesnt appear to match 40 ft cat. So, hope owner gets enough satisfaction by extra speed.

[2Wind]

Originally Posted by Steve_C

He would seem to be doing better than the polar s suggest. I show him currently doing 7.2 knots in 9.9 knots of wind going very close to dead down wind. Impressive indeed if he is only using sails.

I would like to know what he has up? and if he is using a parasailor or a spinnaker.

From his former post :

He has a 125sqm ASI and he uses a Spinnaker pole for optimization of the tack. I also bet he is in light ship state with a small crew.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Sun Flyer

Django is probably flying a big masthead spinnaker in light winds.
.

And a smaller spinnaker for heavier winds. Even so the performance is very good. I am curious about the crew but I would say at least 4 good sailors. I mean I don't expect a smaller crew on that Azuree 46 that is also going fast. They are certainly also flying a Spinnaker.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

it sure is pricey. Inside comfort doesnt appear to match 40 ft cat. So, hope owner gets enough satisfaction by extra speed.

That is an older boat and the movie gives not an idea of the interior and perhaps is why you think the 63 Shipman has the interior space of a 40ft cat. I guess here you can have a better idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84vbXgivxJQ

Anyway I agree that even if the boat is very beamy it has not the interior space of a condo cat of the same size. Even a performance cat will have more space but it will not cost less. Anyway I like performance cats and in no way I am saying the boat is a better or worse option than a cat, only that the Shipman 63 is fast.

I like diversity and many types of boats and there are sailors that prefer each one of them. It makes no sense to say that one is better than the other, except if on a personal basis.

The shipman 63, the Lagoon 40 and a Catana 53, a boat with a similar price.

[Polux]

Looking at the ARC+ again, we will see that the Shipman 63 is already in Cabo Verde, the X612 not far and that, at some distance, the new Fountain Pajot victoria 67 is out-sailing a Catana 472 and being outsailed by an old Swan 651.

Further back, on another group the Lagoon 38 sails alongside with a Azuree 46, an Oyster 575 and a Baltic 52.

Further back follows a Halberg Rassy 54 and then after, some curious couples, sailing near by: A southerly 49 (Distant shores) with a Catana 582, and a Leopard 44; a bit back, a Leopard 48 with a Sun Odyssey 49. They are all outsailing clearly another Fountain Pajot victoria 67, a Fountain Pajot Sanya 57 and a Lagoon 52.

The Lagoon 38 skipped by Lars continue to be the best sailed boat in all the fleet and is 1st in compensated overall.

[Polux]

And Lars and his Lagoon 38 have just arrived at Cabo Verde. On the lighter winds he was overtaken by all the boats of the group he was sailing with that arrived with this order Oyster 575/Azuree 46 and Baltic 52, but the performance of the crew of the Lagoon 38 was awesome, the best in all the fleet.

Lars has a blog and facebook. Maybe he posts there some photos on arrival and share some impressions about the crossing:

https://www.facebook.com/lars.oudrup
Logbog Havhunden 6.-11.9.2015 | Lise Gerdes

We will know soon about the hours of engine use for each of these and other boats. I would not be surprised if the Lagoon was among the ones that used less the engine.

Almost arriving are two other boats, a Fountain Pajot Victoria 67 and a Halberg Rassy 54. Then at some distance comes a group of 4 cats and three monohulls: a Fountain Pajot Sanya 57, a Catana 582, a Leopard 44, a Leopard 48, a Southerly 49, a Sun Odyssey 49 and a Oyster 54.

Among the slower boats, at the end of the fleet we can find some old monohull heavy designs, some small boats but also some cats.

[arsenelupiga]

this arc results settle debate whether pole on cat makes sense or not:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1785898

[careka]

Originally Posted by 2Wind

From his former post :

He has a 125sqm ASI and he uses a Spinnaker pole for optimization of the tack. I also bet he is in light ship state with a small crew.

It is him and his wife and one more koppel , total 4 boat is loaded with food and whats needed for 3 weeks, to cross the atlantic, he has 2 water tanks ++
---
he has a big spinnaker, yes but this is only for light winds, standard genoa, fat head main, and Yes they sail well.

He has won the Multiclass and 4 overall, on this first leg, Lets se how they do on the nexst leg,

They are on a 3 year around the world trip.