450: Code 0 dimensions for 450 Sportop & Cost Estimates

[Darksyde]

more p

[Lady Roslyn]

Hi Darksyde. Please can you tell me what boat you have and what size of Wingaker you chose. Looks fantastic!

Sent from my SM-N920C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Darksyde]

P13 155 sqm

Lagoon 450 F

M

[Lady Roslyn]

We are looking at a 190sqm Wingaker for our Saba 50. How do you find managing the 155sqm shorthanded?

Sent from my SM-N920C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Lady Roslyn]

We were lucky enough to test sail a 168sqm and a 190sqm Wingaker. Here is a picture of us flying the 168sqm Wingaker. Black & White. Very smart. Wind was very light but the sail set perfectly. Amazing how quiet the boat is when sailing with this sail up.

[Lady Roslyn]

Here are pictures test sailing the 190sqm Wingaker on our Saba 50. You can see that the sail sets lower to the deck than the 168sqm Wingaker. I love how the sail tracks as the wind shifts and we are amazed at the pointing ability of this sail. We were able to sail higher than 90deg AWA!

[sidetracks]

Hi All

Newbie.

We too are at decision making time (early Nov 2017) and like the idea of a parasail. Especially for long passage sailing.


Question

Is it advisable to include Code 0 rigging (Factory Fitted) for the Parasail

From your experience with the parasail. Should a Code 0 be part of your sailing plan or does a Parasail meet the needs of sailing between 60 -180 degrees. Covering all points of sail on a cat.

I realise that its 10 months since the last post. Please redirect if necessary.

regards
George

[davedindubai]

The main problem you’ll face is how to attach the lines at the bows. The FP have a cleat here which they can use but the Lagoon doesn’t and the area right at the bows is foam filled do will need some work to fit strong enough attachment points.

I’ll try and get some pics tomorrow to explain what I mean.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

The main problem you’ll face is how to attach the lines at the bows. The FP have a cleat here which they can use but the Lagoon doesn’t and the area right at the bows is foam filled do will need some work to fit strong enough attachment points.

I’ll try and get some pics tomorrow to explain what I mean.

I have never used these 'miracle' sails but from what I have read one needs to reinforce fittings as sail creates extra large forces on rig and boat and things break.

Attaching lines to the bow should not be an issue as L400 is made same way as L45 and these blocks went thru world cruise and more:

[c-reel]

Hi Anthony and/or George !

If you have placed your order, you still have plenty of time to figure out the multiple options.
The choice of sail goes far beyond the expensive D4 code 0 offered from lagoon. There are so many things to think about regarding sails...

Search the forum, there are countless great discussions on sails (technology, shapes, what to chose for what type of sailing, where are you getting the boat as a local sail maker or distributor could be useful, etc ...).

Ask quotes to different makers (quantum, Ullman, North, incidences, etc...) for various set of sails, or visit or give them a call to ask for advice.
As the L450 is well-known, they have all the required measurements (while i'm not sure i'd order online as it's best to have the maker coming and setting this up in case this isn't right). Then you may got 10 different quotes for 20 different configurations of different foresails sets. None will likely be exactly the same! With some of these references, you can start visiting used sails sites too. So choice and trade off will become even more confusing.

As above mentioned, parasail-type seems attractive. Seems. I'm not sure what to think. People tend to love them and there are lots of good self promotion. Good sign. May be some good marketing behind the companies too. Concern of the stress on the rig tough. But maybe not much more than a good large AsySpi. I have no clue yet, but suspicious and keep searching.


One side note on the 2 options of the L450s code 0 (~7.5k$) vs Asym (~4.5k$).... 3k$ to instal a pole seems expensive. It may include more, not sure. But the Asym option will allow upgrades, i believe cheaper and potentially better one. You'll have the extra winches in both cases.

By the way, in case you havent thought about this yet:
- what about hydranet main and genoa sails ? Going to use these more than a code 0, so maybe they deserve more money!
- what about a double genoa for DDW?
- etc ... etc ...

Have fun and good luck !
;-)

Originally Posted by anthonyp0808

Hi

I am getting close to placing an order for a new 450 SporTop.

The Code 0 pricing is an eye watering €13,578 vs 8200 on the Flybridge version. Even the Code 0 rig is more expensive.

Can anybody explain the possible reason for the price disparity - the mast height on the Sportop is shorter do I would have thought a smaller sail area.

I will probably buy my Code 0 aftermarket. To get some quotes on this, I will need some sail dimensions.

What are these for a Code 0?

I suspect as a minimum I will need the J and I. Can anyone help me with these for the Sportop please?

Any pricing on aftermarket a Code 0 and/or a Parasail on a 450 f or 421 would help me to.

Finally, recommendations on aftermarket sail makers who understand cats, particularly Lagoon.

Thanks
Anthony

[sidetracks]

Hi Dave

Thanks for the reply. I remember you mentioned the foam issue before.

How is your sail plan behaving and what is the best point of sail to date using the parasail ?

Look forward to the pictures

George

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by Lady Roslyn

Here are pictures test sailing the 190sqm Wingaker on our Saba 50. You can see that the sail sets lower to the deck than the 168sqm Wingaker. I love how the sail tracks as the wind shifts and we are amazed at the pointing ability of this sail. We were able to sail higher than 90deg AWA!

Great pics. Are you saying it can handle a beam reach edging toward close reach? I would have assumed that the wing pockets would collapse without <90deg wind to keep them inflated? Does the bernoulli effect work to keep it open? I always assumed this was strictly a running sail that could handle variable broad reach.

[Ulstue]

My L450 (2015) has padeys (to attach blocks) as standard on the bow at the points you can see on Arsenelupigas picture and beside the steps to the Flybridge. Works fine for wingakers etc. I don't understand what Dave means. And I have never heard about extra winches for the L450 - I don't see any need - all 4 lines are redirected to the winches at the flybridge.

Edit: Sorry, not exactly read. I don't know the L 450 S.

[Pascals Wager]

Dave is talking about the filler that fills the area under the bow padeye mounting point. It will need to be dug out in order to place the backing plate if installed post delivery. The L450S does require two additional S60 winches if rigging a Code 0 , SPI etc.

[davedindubai]

Originally Posted by sidetracks

Hi Dave



Thanks for the reply. I remember you mentioned the foam issue before.



How is your sail plan behaving and what is the best point of sail to date using the parasail ?



Look forward to the pictures



George

I opted for the ‘spinnaker pack’ which included; 2x Harken 60 winches, 2x deck fixings plus blocks and the bow sprit.

I didn’t get any bow fittings or a sail from Lagoon.

I fitted the bow deck fittings myself and they are not for vertical load but only for my furling line. When I fitted the bow fittings I drilled the deck (which was pre punched) and there’s only 10mm of fiber glass. The screws all came down behind the bulk head and into the foam filled cavity.

To fly a wingaker (parasailor) you will need to fit pretty sturdy pad eyes or even better would be to fit 2x cleats which would be handy for picking up mooring balls too.

The basic sail plan has been ok for us from 40° to 140° awa. I run the Genoa thru a block fitted on the mid ships cleat and put a preventer on the main.

My gennaker is a major headache and doesn’t furl so I need to sell the furler and buy a sock. Anyone want to swap? If I could do it over again, I’d go for the wingaker instead.