400: Lagoon 400

[paulrack]

Hi Mike, if you have your main halyard attached to the end of the boom and the boom sheeted tight with the mainsheet to the traveller surely that should act like a backstay. I guess then the only issue would be how the spreaders are set up so the mast will not "deflect". Your thoughts?

[YOGAO]

Paul,
Thanks. Yes, I think that would work pretty well. With the topping lift in place you should be okay in most instances. We don't raise our main when sailing deep downwind.

I was just trying to provide some reasoning behind the Lagoon cautions.

Fair Winds,
Mike

[hanafe]

Bman,
we have no problem with the fridge. The water is is running into the bilge and pumped out from there.
Sailing downwind without main sail was never a problem to me but using a Parasailor. Great sail for cats. You can go directly downwind in the shortest way and you are extreme fast and very balanced. Even the autopilot can hold the course easily. A good friend of mine used his on his Lagoon for thousands of miles also in strong winds. The main is down and the mainsheet and toplifting are tight.
My Parasailor is too small for real good performance as I use the one from my former boat. It is only around 78 sqm and should be around 170 sqm for a L 400. However, we still use it if we are tired of jibing down the wind all the time and want to have a relaxed sail down wind.
Of course the recommondation of Lagoon must have a reason.

[bman]

Thanks Garold and hanafe

I had the dealer's service guys looking about under the cabin floor and we could not find a drain. I believe that that there is no drain attached to the drain outlet from the fridge and freezer. The water is not collecting in the bilge, rather it is seeping out the side of the cabinet onto the salon floor. I have tracked all of the drains and have yet to find a fridge drain.

Damage is beginning to appear on the bottom of the cabinet wood. I can not see inside of the cabinet because the fridge and freezer fill the entire space and it is not possible to remove either appliance. It appears as though the cabinet was built around and installed after the applicances were installed.

The water is not coming from defrosting as the plugs are kept in. I can feel condensation on the front bottom of the freezer and I suspect the water is coming from condensation on both appliances.

I suspect that others may have water pooling but are not seeing it. My boat tends to list a bit to port and I suspect that is why I am seeing the water as it accumulates (8 house batteries, diesel heater and an inverter in the port aft cabin have something to do with that and will be balanced by lots of junk on the owners side (starboard)).

I am told that dufour boats (at least at one time) were installing fridges without drains.


I am interested if Peter has had one of his appliances replaced. I recall him saying something about his boat coming with the wrong appliance and this it would be changed. Peter if that is the case how did they get the appliances out?


hanafe - I will look into a parasailor, here in the pacific northwest we tend to get light winds that are either on the nose or from the stern so I will need to have as much sail up as is possible.

Regards
Bruce

[Lucky Larry]

Hi All,

Our L 400 is hull #23. we have had the same issues listed here in the smelly owner's head, and the water coming out from the base of the cabinet that contains the fridge & freezer. I've forwarded the link to this thread to the Caribbean Lagoon dealer we used since he is also managing our boat in Puerto Del Rey Marina, Fajardo, Puerto Rico.

Unfortunately we're a 3 hour flight from our boat but it's awesome to leave the house at 5 am and be provisioned and casting off at noon in the Spanish Virgin Islands.

LuckyLarry

[Garold]

Just for info, I had this email from my supplying agent about a week or so ago.

The winch manufacturer, HARKEN has informed us of a breakage risk affecting the peeler on manual or motorised Self-Tailing winches which can lead to the partial deterioration of the winch.

We have therefore been asked to take preventative action and replace the peeler of each self-tailing winch with a new model on all winches installed.

I will be sending you shortly a replacement kit for your yacht, including the new HARKEN spring and assembly instructions.

The instructions are very straightforward and require minimal tools.

My dealer, Ancasta, sorted it out for me and fitted the parts, but anyone else with Harken winches may want to contact their dealer.

Cheers guys

Garold

[hanafe]

Dear Garold,
thank you for this information. I have a problem in my e-winches. There is a noise like grinding in it. I am arguing with my dealer since around 4 - 5 months about it and he always explain to me that it is normal and they only need maintainance. To maintain winches after a bit more than 6 months seems very unusual. We argue so long now that it is soon getting time to maintain. Anyway, I will use your information to find out if they also got a kit for repair. The winches are working fine in the moment. Thanks again. This thread is really usefull for L 400 owners.
rgds
HanaFe
P.S. We had a real good sail yesterday. 20 - 25 knts wind true, Reef 1, max velo 9.1 knt in 35 degree apparent, no waves,

[paulrack]

Hi Hanafe

I would keep all those previous emails on the winches, Grinding does not sound good. Another help of the forums in knowing tech reports like this.

Let us know when you have it fixed what the problem was.

Cheers
Paul

[Garold]

Hanafe

Maybe also contact Harken direct. At least then you should get a definitive answer.

Dealers eh? Maybe Lagoon need to put more money in dealer training and support because they really vary in their effort levels across the globe.

Cheers

Garold

[YOGAO]

At the risk of creating more work for Lagoon, do they have a mechanism for owners to provide direct feedback on the performance of their dealers? I know that Chrysler (prior to bankruptcy) would contact their vehicle owners after the dealer performed warranty services to gauge customer satisfaction.

Fair Winds,
Mike

[impi]

Originally Posted by paulrack

Hi Garold

I cannot complain about one weekend missed sailing. I am very lucky in that I am 10mins by car to my boat. After your 80 miles I know appreciate my situation!

Brent I will look out for you on the water, was your boat on show last year?

Cheers
Paul

Hi Paul - yes, my boat was on the show last year - at the end of the jetty

[impi]

Originally Posted by bman

Thanks Garold and hanafe

I had the dealer's service guys looking about under the cabin floor and we could not find a drain. I believe that that there is no drain attached to the drain outlet from the fridge and freezer. The water is not collecting in the bilge, rather it is seeping out the side of the cabinet onto the salon floor. I have tracked all of the drains and have yet to find a fridge drain.

Damage is beginning to appear on the bottom of the cabinet wood. I can not see inside of the cabinet because the fridge and freezer fill the entire space and it is not possible to remove either appliance. It appears as though the cabinet was built around and installed after the applicances were installed.

The water is not coming from defrosting as the plugs are kept in. I can feel condensation on the front bottom of the freezer and I suspect the water is coming from condensation on both appliances.

I suspect that others may have water pooling but are not seeing it. Regards
Bruce

Hi Bruce

We now infact have our floor (boat getting to be 1 year old only now) sagging in the area where the water pools.

I have instructed the Lagoon dealers to meet me on the boat tomorrow am, as this condition was reported when I purchased the vessel ..... no action and now developing into a MUCH BIGGER probelm. Keep an eye on it ..

[impi]

Originally Posted by bman

A couple of issues:

Water pooling under the refrigerator cabinent and leaking onto the floor at the salon entrance. Looks like this is condensation from both the fridge and freezer. Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone know how to remove the fridge and freezer as it appears to the writer as well as the local lagoon dealer that the cabinet was built around the fridge and freezer. If I remove the freezer I will likely move it under the helm station in the cockpit. Of interst there does not appear to be a drain tube connecting to the freezer or freezer so that when you defrost the water has no where to drain.

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Yes, we have the same problem. you can read our posts above, but definately keep an eye on it or your floor boards will begin to rot.
We wont attempt removing the fridge - it is a difficult task from what I can see, and the fridges are not great. Be careful to check the screw under the bottom hinge mount. whilst on the delivery trip from the factory, the screw turned loose and the entire door fell off and damaged the floor and put a crease in the door. We now have a stopper (bottle cap) under it so the screw cant unwind itself all the way. As for our Lagoon dealer regarding this issue : 'lagoon does not take responsibility for the damage'. We have to live with the marks in our floorboards !!!

[RunningFish]

Originally Posted by Garold

Hanafe

Just coincidentally I was reading an article about smelly toilets in an old Practical Boat Owner this morning and the content was relevant to your idea.

The writer did a small experiment to test if seawater really does break down under certain conditions and produce the smelly hydrogen sulphide.

He stored seawater in number of plastic bottles. Some were dark plastic and some clear (since there is a suggestion that the smell is more likely to come when the light can get to the water through clear pipes). He also stored some for a day, a week and longer. He also put some in his engine compartment to add constant heating up.

Interestingly, every bottle that he opened, whatever he did to them, was smell-free. Surprising eh?

He then speculated about why he has smells. And his supposition is that the smell is from the smallest particles of human waste that just stays in the system maybe at pipe joins or in the gap near rubber washers etc. He suggests that they, mixed with sea water, combine to make the smells (over time). He said that on the heads that are used regularly, he doesn't experience the smells, and when leaving for any protracted period without use, it is important to flush the toilets as much as possible to clear any waste.

My thoughts are that maybe Hanafe, you have part of the answer with your extra valve on the outlet side. However, it still doesn't make sense to me that the smell only comes when the toilet is flushed after several days without use, because then the fresh water is introduced from the rinse side. But the smell is coming from the dirty side, shich is supposed to be flowing away from the toilet. Puzzling.

Looks like the smelly marine toilet is still one of the great unsolved mysteries in my life.

Cheers guys

Garold

The seawater faucet in my galley also smells after some period of no use (length of time seems to depend on location of boat and contents of seawater.

Since there's no "small particles of human waste", I think the writer's speculation is off base.

I'm convinced the smell is from dying organisms from the seawater itself.

[impi]

Guys if I may........
Does anyone have the stainless steel fading off into a green color on the engine throttle controls?
I have a professional cleaning company who are very particular about what products are used in cleaning, and they refuse to clean the throttle casing because the stainless is 'a problem' ???