400: Lagoon 400

[peterp]

Garard, no I did not take it that way, it was actually the Australian dealer that sent it to me from Paris when he was on a visit there. D&D you are now a full bottle.
Regards Peter

[Garold]

We just had our third weekend on board our new Lagoon 400.

Since the sailbag had been removed for modifications, and the sail and reefing lines were all tied up together we decided to have a motoring weekend.

We travelled about 30 miles round trip with one overnight stop in Lymington, and thena lunchtime stop at the Folly Inn pontoon on the River Medina.

As a guide, the engines (40hp Yanmars) give about 6 knots at 2000 revs, and we maxed out just short of 9 knots at about 3400 revs. Given the massive increase in fuel consumption as one increases the revs, I think that we will do most of our motor sailing at about 7 knots. As soon as our sailbag and sails are refitted, and back functioning we will obviously sail whenever possible.

I had the opportunity to park the boat a couple of times and, after some advice from a friend, I used the throttles a bit more aggressively when manoeuvring and it seemed to give me more control. I think it was the differnce between 'bossing the boat' rather than 'the boat bossing me'. Whilst this is only really a strategy that is necessary when there is current and/or tide I felt more in control and was able to place the boat more accurately where I wanted it. With no wind or current, then it's back to gentle use of the engines.

So, the great news is that the bow thruster expense may not now be needed. I guess I have to stick with it. As they say in the books, 'feel the fear and do it anyway'............again and again until you are good enough not to feel the anxiety any more!

We had a sunny weekend, and the cockpit canopy was a good sun shelter with enough boat left on which to sit to find the sun if desired.

And now it's Monday, so it's back to work.

Cheers

Garold

[D&D]

Originally Posted by peterp

you are now a full bottle.

Thanks very much to both of you, peterp and garold. We really do appreciate you sharing your experiences.

We're currently awaiting Steve Austin's (our Vicsail rep, although we also know Brendan reasonably well from our previous correspondence) return from France. Steve will no doubt be bearing 'news' that will be much as you both already so kindly advised! We're still undecided, but we agree the L400 is an impressive vessel.

Refrigeration is a big priority for us as we intend to be away for months at a time. On the L400 we would order only the standard frig in the galley -- galley storage needs to be maximised for our purposes and it was a weakness on the L400 we saw...hence the interest in the 'new' cupboards -- and then the upright cockpit frig under the helm -- It can hold upright champagne bottles! -- and a retro-fitted freezer in the cockpit seat immediately aft of the galley...and, finally, a small (probably portable and AC-powered) ice maker for margaritas!!

Much as we are certain our decision process is appropriately slow and careful and there is an attractive alternative vessel for us, we certainly do envy you both being on (Garold) and very close to (peterp) being on the water in your new vessels. Enjoy!!

[Garold]

Following a prompt from Peter, I would like to post that I may have misread the engine rev guages.

I have checked the Yanmar website and the 40hp engines fitted to my boat are supposed to rev up to max 3000revs.

I can only assume that since I sit a lot higher than the guages,I have overread the numbers as I look down at them. I shall endeavour to check this weekend.

Or maybe I just have really fast engines!!! Mmmmmph?

Cheers

Garold

[peterp]

Actually on my test sail I took particular notice of the rpm, Garold is quite right, I found the rpm easy to misread as the tacho is indeed set quite low, something one would get used to over time. Whilst on the engine subject I recall asking the Yanmar rep the pros and cons of the 30 versus the 40 (the 30 is standard) on the L400 amongst other things he said the 40hp would be quieter, and would swing a larger prop, the downside, it is 48 kg heavier, checking the Yanmar fuel burn graph the 40 uses about 2.2 lph at 2000 rpm, at maximum rpm of 3000 fuel burn is 8.2 lph, the 30 burns 1.2 lph at 2000 rpm and at maximum rpm of 3600 burns 7.7 lph, so not a huge difference, I was struggling to make a decision on which engine to choose I felt the difference in fuel burn was not significant enough to favour the 30 given the majority of motoring would be at around the 2000 rpm, the weight increase was of some concern, on the plus side maybe one day the extra grunt may get one out of trouble but I really don’t have enough experience to be sure on that score, I suspect resale value may be enhanced with a 40 hp engine, in any event I chose the 40hp upgrade the cost difference in the broad scheme of things was minimal.
Kind regards Peter

[bman]

Hi everyone

We are the owners of new 2010 Lagoon 400 "Amritha". Amritha home is on Vancouver Island Canada.

[Jeannius]

Hi Garold

Just come upon this thread and it is great to see you having a good time on a cat in U.K. waters. A couple of questions and an observation...

Did you have any trouble finding a marina berth? Do they charge a fortune for being a cat?

How did the installation of the heating system go? Does it look like an original fitment or an after-market add-on?

We are sailing around the world in company with a Lagoon 421 and a 440. Both of these designs have nice foot holes in the hull to assist the boarding process. Seems very strange Lagoon haven't included them in the 400!

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

a Lagoon 421 and a 440. Both of these designs have nice foot holes in the hull to assist the boarding process. Seems very strange Lagoon haven't included them in the 400!

We agree! The hull step in the 400 is right aft...and seems unlikely to be of any real benefit or use...whereas those on the 421 and 440 are midships, where they'r really needed...and where they would be really useful and used on the 400!

[bman]

I have found the indented step on the 400 useful when leaving the dock. The crew is able to ensure push off as the stern clears the dock. My practice has been to come into the dock in reverse at about 45 degree angle and have the crew step off, secure a line put it into forward and drift into the dock. I agree that it would be helpful to have a indent midship. Has anyone put a gate in the lifelines at the spreader. It looks like there are pads there. Further what kind of boarding ladder are people using?

Cheers
Bruce

[peterp]

Hello Bman, this thread is becoming a meca for 400 types we now have you, Garold, and within a couple of months me, and a wanabe. Please let's know your thought on the L400, age, equipment and how does it sail in under ten knots of wind, we have been discussing light wind performance, no one is really sure, and your general opinion of the build quolity etc.etc. Re the gates a new owner in Hong Kong I have been chatting to has had it done, and he also raised the helm seat and fitted a foot rest, I will find his post and report. I note Lagoon have lifted the helm seat and fitted a foot rest in the 2011 model range amongst other things starting with hull no 93 which happens to be my hull number, really that's a lot of L400's in such a short model time.
Regards Peter

[bman]

Hello Peter

Sailing performance - she sails at about 1/2 the wind speed. Have not seen much more then 20nts wind so I will be interested in performance in higher wind speed. Build quality - the systems seem to be good however the finish work is poor. I had a inwater survey done and it turned up only one major issue the fuel line was chafing through. If you are getting a new boat I would highly recomend a survey picking up the issue with the fuel line may hae saved the boat. The surveyor pointed out some finishing issues: the edges of the plywood bulkheads are not finished and sealed nor are they hatch covers in the engine room or for that matter the plywood in any part of the boat finished and sealed. Water and moisture will cause the wood to swell. I had some of this dealt with and will deal with the rest over time. Master head shower - wood molding at the floor level was not sealed (same moisture concern).

Have had her out only a couple of times and on both occasions had serious systems probems. Maiden voyage the boom fell of the mast. The bolt that secured the gooseneck backed off. Suggested fix - have the nut and bolt drilled through and a pin placed. Second trip the port prop fell off. No apparent reason. Again I would suggest a survey.

Galley storage as others have mentioned is poor. I have a freezer and fridge in the galley and expect that I will likely use the freezer for storage. I have never liked storage under cushions in the salon and given that the Espar Diesel heating ducts occupy a good portion of the area I will likely have little use for that area except perhaps for intems that are not often used. It is strange that the cushions do night line up with the hinged wooden hatch covers such that if you want to access the storage you need to pull out several cushions. This is an obvious fix that Lagoon should have never missed.

On the issue of storage. I have bee considering having a storage uniit built on top of the cabinet where the electrical panel is. If I do this I will make sure that it could be recoved so that there still could be access to the electrical systems.

In any event we will be putting in removable storage containers. A couple would sit nicely onto of the electrical panel cabinet and a few more containers could sit on the shelf around the windows in the salon. These would make storge easy. The dealers tech guy mentioned that it is possible to cut out the fiberglass panels on the port side at the front of the salon (just below the windows_ this would make great storage. Doubt I will do it at this time. In any event there is lots of storage on the starboard office and it would be easy to place a few portable storage containers there.

I have heard that the cupboard over the stove that Lagoon is putting in boats now can can purchased as an add on to existing boats. I doubt that I will get it. It does not look like it will add much storage and it would change the open feel that the galley has now.

Regards
Bruce

[peterp]

Hello Bruce, thanks indeed for the feedback, wonder how many times a prop falls off, scary, must say I will definitely be checking the prop fittings when my L400 arrives, I wonder is that a Yanmar issue as I understand the engines come complete ready to drop in on the production line, but I’m not sure. The nut winding off is possibly a poor job of assembling. I guess one thing I have learned from flying for 30 odd years is the importance of the pre take off check, prior to entering the cockpit one does a disiplined walk around eyeballing vital control surfaces, the prop for damage, oil, fuel, sufficient etc. I imagine a pre sailing disciplined check list of vital fixtures including such things as the critical loose nut bolt holding the boom may have been noted and tightend prior to “take off” or departure from the mooring, please don’t take this as a criticism, not sure how one checks if the props are secure as they are underwater!! Interestingly the fix you suggested to have the nut and bolt drilled through and a pin placed is normal on aircraft, without the pin but with the addition of lock wire, vibration can undo most nuts over a period of time. For what it’s worth my dealer has advised that with respect to the cushions that oversight has amongst other things been attended to on the 2011 model’s from hull number 93. I feel the storage will be ok, as we will use the port front cabin exclusively for overflow storage, don’t want to make things too comfortable for visitors they may never want to leave.

As always just my thoughts. Regards Peter

[Garold]

I have posted three images.

One of them shows my rev guage when the engines were flat out. Both showed the same. I originally over-estimated the max revs because I was looking down at them, but they still look like 3300rpm maximum to me. So maybe I do just super-fast engines! NB I only did this for few moments to try it out.......

As for the sailing performance, I took a couple of pics of the gps this weekend whilst out on a very light wind weekend. The performance was achieved with normal jib and mainsail. We have no cruising chute yet.

I use the gps in a very limited manner but thought that the gps readouts may be of interest, since there has been some discussion of light wind performance of the L400.

Fingers crossed, and hope the photos post.

Cheers

Garold

[Garold]

Jeannius

Sorry, missed your post earlier.

'Sailing round the world'........ wow!

Anyway, double charging for cats?

In the Solent area of the UK, most marinas want to charge +50% if you occupy an inner berth where they could have fitted two monohulls.

However, if a marina has linear pontoon space (eg on a hammerhead, or a long straight bit of pontoon) then they will usually charge standard rate (except a couple of the most expensive River Hamble marinas). Since most UK marinas seem to have vacancies at the moment, they are maybe a bit more amenable than usual. This may change if the economy picks up.

The heating installation has gone well so far. We are just waiting for a twin coil calorifier to arrive so that the hot water can be heated by the engine and heating system. We gave our installer a fair budget and asked for the 'best job he had ever done'. Not sure how we will fare over time but so far, the system looks well installed, the pipes are all lagged and fastened, and all fittings have been fitted in the best place rather than the easiest locations. I have not had a final bill but so far I am happy.

Just for info, we have a webasto air blower system that feeds the saloon and the front half of both hulls. We also have a Webasto hydronic system which serves fan matrixes in all cabins, radiators in the owners cabin, and (when complete) will heat the water in the calorifier. I know that it all sounds a bit excessive but my wife feels the cold and a good heating system makes her feel much happier spending time on board especially in the middle of winter.

As for getting on and off the L400, we are still devising the best solutions. We do use the indented step in the side hull near the stern but this only works if we reverse into our berth. Since our berth is only about 36 foot long, if we pull in bows first we have some difficulty boarding. We have bought a 'fender ladder' with about 5 steps. This provides a solution getting onto the boat via the sidedeck but still not ideal. I'm not too sure that a gate in the side would help because its the height of the side deck that is a problem. Once up there I can climb the rail! A couple of indented steps half way along the sidehulls is probably the only answer.

Anyway, nice to hear from you.

Cheers

Garold

Originally Posted by Jeannius

Hi Garold

Just come upon this thread and it is great to see you having a good time on a cat in U.K. waters. A couple of questions and an observation...

Did you have any trouble finding a marina berth? Do they charge a fortune for being a cat?

How did the installation of the heating system go? Does it look like an original fitment or an after-market add-on?

We are sailing around the world in company with a Lagoon 421 and a 440. Both of these designs have nice foot holes in the hull to assist the boarding process. Seems very strange Lagoon haven't included them in the 400!

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Garold

I have posted three images...hope the photos post.

All good Garold...and thanks much.

The light air performance there recorded is indeed good. Was there any tide or current involved?

Cheers,
the "wanabe"