General Info: Lagoon 400 or 42 for long term circumnavigating

[arsenelupiga]

I am obviously betting on L400 to be able to do the job of long term cruising for 2. Not circumvigating. Too much mess/anger out there.

It is just 3cm less than 12m which helps budget. Sails well even is sub 10 kn wind, decent load capacity and lots of space. And above all - my wife loves it.

I try to keep it light and minimize windage - kayaks, solar, etc.

[DeepCut]

Our Lagoon 42 (Sea Tiger) does have factory Air and Gen. Our charter company (TMM) arranged for a second water tank to be placed (after delivery) in the port locker (shared with anchor chain) which increases the water capacity to about 140 gallons.

[Bec10]

Originally Posted by MattyBoy

Bec10,
What size Panda Generator is that? Does it power everything you have on board?

Matt

Matt

Its a Fischer Panda 8000i PMS 230V-50HZ - 8 kVA. Yes it power everything on board.

Best B

[introverted]

Originally Posted by Saltrun

Our 42 has been great, both sailing and at anchor. I have a question though, because it was something that we thought too at one time. The amount of storage that two people need for a trip just about anywhere, is probably a lot less than most people think. Our previous catamaran was good too, but we were ready to move on to something newer, or new, and something better. We chose the new 42, and just finished sailing the Caribbean in Grenada. When we unloaded our previous boat for the handover when we sold it, we took so much off the boat that we were literally astounded. We had loaded that boat down so much with a spare this and a spare that, that we really just needed to tow a spare catamaran behind us! Catamarans do not like to be loaded too much, they will lay low in the water and this kills performance. Remember too, you have several spare cabins, and many catamaran owners use a spare cabin as a huge storage space.
The galley is limited in storage, but there really is enough. There is storage in the salon under the floor hatches, as well as under several of the seats for additional food stores. Nesting pots are a must, although we have had a tough time with our Magnum set. They look like nonstick, but then you use them... not so much.
I store spares and engine oil, etc, under the hull floor hatches. They stay bone dry and this keeps this heavy stuff out of the bow storage. There is so much storage actually, that we intentionally keep the spare rear cabin completely empty, for the occasional visitor! We keep fenders, dock lines, and the code zero in the large storage lockers on the bows. Cleaning supplies and hoses and shore power cords go in the space next to the chain locker under that hatch. The other hatch in front of the windshield is pretty much for the generator. There is a large storage locker in the cockpit that holds miscellaneous lines, spare helm stuff and dinghy stuff.
We worried that 80 gallons of water would not be enough, and for a South Sea passage, it probably would make us nervous to leave with this. But, the watermaker we have makes 40 gallons an hour, and you can get one that runs on generator as well as 12 volt. This would give you the option of running it either way, if the battery bank was big enough. There is room for 840 watts of solar on the starboard hardtop roof too, we did that! If we do the Puddle Jump, we would carry another 50 gallons of water in flexible containers, like the ones for camping. The truth is, we need to run the watermaker every couple days anyway, to keep it fresh, and we top the tank off in just an hour or so. We would keep the extra water as a O-**** backup only. So, storage has not been an issue for us, and I have never felt that the boat was overloaded, or sitting too low in the water.
Also, the new hull and rig design on the 42 has added a lot to the overall feel of the boat. By this I mean that the hulls themselves, are wider, and therefore have more floatation and less tendency to 'sink' down when the boat is loaded down for a long passage. Also, the mast moved aft has made a huge difference in boat comfort. They boat really doesn't hobby horse along in a head sea, and there is a lot less pounding too.
As for the rig vs design weight, that is something to consider. The boat is big for a 42, and the rig is not enormous. But, it is safe, too. The manual says to run a full sail plan up to 23 knots. Then 1 reef in the main. If you get the furling code zero setup, you can use that up to about 15 knots, then roll it up and go to the standard self-tacking jib. We never felt the boat to be underpowered, and it is so easy to sail. If you are going around, then you can use the code zero setup for a true downwind sail too.
As for the helm position, we have the factory full helm and cockpit enclosure that makes it impossible to go over the side. It is just my wife and myself aboard, so this is super important for us. The visibility forward is not as good as the 44-45 Lagoons, but you are still down in the cockpit area, and I can see both forward corners fine, and both rear corners if I duck down to look under the hardtop. I do not think the 45 has this rear facing view, which you need at times to dock backing into the wind.
I also think that resale down the road is something to consider. The 42 is so popular, that there will be buyers looking for one if you want / need to sell. The 40 is being replaced soon, and will be a smaller version of the 42 from what I have seen. The older 40 will not garner the sales attention that the newer 42 will get when that time comes, and when we priced them, there was very little difference in cost between the two. Not enough to go small, when you could go big! We do not regret our decision.
Chris and Joyce
SV Disco Volante

your post helped us choose hull #492

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by Saltrun

Our 42 has been great, both sailing and at anchor. I have a question though, because it was something that we thought too at one time. The amount of storage that two people need for a trip just about anywhere, is probably a lot less than most people think. Our previous catamaran was good too, but we were ready to move on to something newer, or new, and something better. We chose the new 42, and just finished sailing the Caribbean in Grenada. When we unloaded our previous boat for the handover when we sold it, we took so much off the boat that we were literally astounded. We had loaded that boat down so much with a spare this and a spare that, that we really just needed to tow a spare catamaran behind us! Catamarans do not like to be loaded too much, they will lay low in the water and this kills performance. Remember too, you have several spare cabins, and many catamaran owners use a spare cabin as a huge storage space.
The galley is limited in storage, but there really is enough. There is storage in the salon under the floor hatches, as well as under several of the seats for additional food stores. Nesting pots are a must, although we have had a tough time with our Magnum set. They look like nonstick, but then you use them... not so much.
I store spares and engine oil, etc, under the hull floor hatches. They stay bone dry and this keeps this heavy stuff out of the bow storage. There is so much storage actually, that we intentionally keep the spare rear cabin completely empty, for the occasional visitor! We keep fenders, dock lines, and the code zero in the large storage lockers on the bows. Cleaning supplies and hoses and shore power cords go in the space next to the chain locker under that hatch. The other hatch in front of the windshield is pretty much for the generator. There is a large storage locker in the cockpit that holds miscellaneous lines, spare helm stuff and dinghy stuff.
We worried that 80 gallons of water would not be enough, and for a South Sea passage, it probably would make us nervous to leave with this. But, the watermaker we have makes 40 gallons an hour, and you can get one that runs on generator as well as 12 volt. This would give you the option of running it either way, if the battery bank was big enough. There is room for 840 watts of solar on the starboard hardtop roof too, we did that! If we do the Puddle Jump, we would carry another 50 gallons of water in flexible containers, like the ones for camping. The truth is, we need to run the watermaker every couple days anyway, to keep it fresh, and we top the tank off in just an hour or so. We would keep the extra water as a O-**** backup only. So, storage has not been an issue for us, and I have never felt that the boat was overloaded, or sitting too low in the water.
Also, the new hull and rig design on the 42 has added a lot to the overall feel of the boat. By this I mean that the hulls themselves, are wider, and therefore have more floatation and less tendency to 'sink' down when the boat is loaded down for a long passage. Also, the mast moved aft has made a huge difference in boat comfort. They boat really doesn't hobby horse along in a head sea, and there is a lot less pounding too.
As for the rig vs design weight, that is something to consider. The boat is big for a 42, and the rig is not enormous. But, it is safe, too. The manual says to run a full sail plan up to 23 knots. Then 1 reef in the main. If you get the furling code zero setup, you can use that up to about 15 knots, then roll it up and go to the standard self-tacking jib. We never felt the boat to be underpowered, and it is so easy to sail. If you are going around, then you can use the code zero setup for a true downwind sail too.
As for the helm position, we have the factory full helm and cockpit enclosure that makes it impossible to go over the side. It is just my wife and myself aboard, so this is super important for us. The visibility forward is not as good as the 44-45 Lagoons, but you are still down in the cockpit area, and I can see both forward corners fine, and both rear corners if I duck down to look under the hardtop. I do not think the 45 has this rear facing view, which you need at times to dock backing into the wind.
I also think that resale down the road is something to consider. The 42 is so popular, that there will be buyers looking for one if you want / need to sell. The 40 is being replaced soon, and will be a smaller version of the 42 from what I have seen. The older 40 will not garner the sales attention that the newer 42 will get when that time comes, and when we priced them, there was very little difference in cost between the two. Not enough to go small, when you could go big! We do not regret our decision.
Chris and Joyce
SV Disco Volante

After completing an 1100 mile offshore passage on DeepCut's L42, and now spending time on our L42, Ocean Song (Hull #279), I could not agree more. We plan to liveaboard in a couple more years, and with it being just me and my wife plus occasional guests, storage is no longer a concern. We have an owner's version with storage in lieu of the love seat. Even without that extra storage I think the L42's storage capacity is more than enough for a cruising couple.

The thing that has surprised us the most about the L42 is her ease of sailing and her performance for a relatively heavy boat with an undersized sail plan. Of course, a big part of the reason she is so easy to sail is the undersized rig. We also have two electric winches. The mainsail placed more aft allows for a smaller main and combined with the self-tacking jib make her easy for even novice sailors to manage. Ease of sailing was a high priority for us. We've been monohullers, except for charters, for more than 25 years. We owned and sailed a Catalina 30 for many, many years and the L42 is actually easier for me and my wife to sail than our C30. Reefing is simple and the L42 is very comfortable.

[CatNewBee]

We love our 400S2, bought it 2nd hand.

We have one with all options factory installed. I would opt out the A/C install, it takes precious storage under the bunks and in the salon. I would fit only one unit - if any - in a central place and use ducts to cool the hulls. Also installation position of the water maker is not optimal regarding storage and space efficiency.

She sails great and I can sail her single-handed easily.

Sailed up to now 2000nm in the Med and Adriatic, more to come this year.

[Jim Woodall]

Another update to this thread:

Just returned from a couple of weeks sailing in the BVI onboard our Lagoon 42, Ocean Song. During the first week we had a total of three people onboard, the second week it was just me and my wife.

We had great conditions and crossed paths with DeepCut on his L42, Sea Tiger, the first week. Throughout our two weeks we had moderate (14-17 kt) to strong winds (30+kt).

We left JVD one day in late-morning to round West End and meet up with other friends at Norman. Winds were coming straight down the channel and we knew it would be dead on the nose once we went around Frenchmans Cay. Our rendezvous was cancelled because the crew of the other boat, an IP 465, believed it would be a bit too rough for one crew member who had had a few too many Dark and Stormies at Foxy's the night before. We make the quick trip to CGB and headed for Norman the following day.

The conditions were the same the next day, and as anticipated we had 20-25 kt winds on the nose and 4 ft seas. As we sailed into the channel after passing the tip of Frenchman's Cay to our port, the winds piped up to a fairly steady 23-27 kts and gusts in the low 30's. The winds dropped to around 18 or 19 a few times over the next two hours. We began to encounter seas of about 5-6 ft with the occasional breaking wave. We decided to shoulder the swell and waves which meant we tacked 6 times to cover the 6+ nm to Norman. No motor sailing, strictly sail power - so that meant 13.5 nm under sail from the cut at West End to just beyond The Indians.

We were in no hurry and it was our intent to tack as often as needed to keep Ocean Song moving well and reach the Bight around 2:00 pm. We alternated between a single-reefed main and jib and double-reefed sails. We were double-reefed 80% of the time. We reefed often simply to practice because my wife and I were the only people onboard. Our buddy boat had left about an hour before us, motor-sailed and got into the Bight around 1:15. The IP had motor-sailed reefed down as well. We sailed the 13.5 nm to Norman in just over two hours, our chart plotter showed an average speed of 6.56 kts, with a top speed of 8.61 kts. We had about a 1 kt current partially against us most of the way. We arrived just before 2:00 pm.

The boat was comfortable; although, we used our handholds to move around. We had a few wave slaps, but no slamming. We prepared and ate lunch while underway and had our drinks (non-alcoholic) sitting on the cockpit table with no spills! Our buddies on the IP 465 reported a relatively uncomfortable sail, but not bad. Still too difficult to prepare and eat lunch so they waited until they were in the Bight. The skipper of the IP has made multiple offshore passages (more then 12 between Norfolk and the Virgin Islands) so he knows rough -v- merely uncomfortable.

This is repeating a theme from my earlier posts, but one tremendous attribute of the Lagoon 42 is her ease of handling. My wife weighs in at 113 lbs soaking wet and she single-handedly reefed the sails, helmed the boat, and tacked in these conditions. We took turns doing all the operations to reef the sails in order to practice doing it single-handed. We do have two electric winches at the helm station. Moreover, we stayed relatively dry without the helm enclosure being used. We did get sprayed a few times, but we were in the tropics!

We have been totally impressed with the Lagoon 42 to date. Admittedly, we fiddle a lot with sail trim and experiment with operating her single-handed. We do that because we plan to live aboard in a few years. She's easy to dock, pick up mooring balls, and anchor. What the Lagoon 42 lacks in speed, she more than makes up for in ease of handling and comfort. She even moves pretty well when one plays attention to sail trim and sea state.

[Steve_C]

Thanks for the update Jim, sounds like great upwind performance. Of course this is not possible since Lagoons can't go upwind at all right!

Next thing you know people are going to try to cross OCEANS in these things.

Back to reality, the 42 is right near the top of my list. I am working on final retirement planning and as my final budgetary picture is clarified in the next year or so hopefully prices for the 42 in the used market will drop some.

I appreciate the updates, Have you found anything about it you don't care for?or improvements you plan to make?

Glad your getting to enjoy it.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by Steve_C

Thanks for the update Jim, sounds like great upwind performance. Of course this is not possible since Lagoons can't go upwind at all right!

Next thing you know people are going to try to cross OCEANS in these things.

Back to reality, the 42 is right near the top of my list. I am working on final retirement planning and as my final budgetary picture is clarified in the next year or so hopefully prices for the 42 in the used market will drop some.

I appreciate the updates, Have you found anything about it you don't care for?or improvements you plan to make?

Glad your getting to enjoy it.

Steve:

So far there is little we really dislike, but there are a few things that make me and my wife scratch our heads and ask, "why did Lagoon do it that way?"

It's mostly small things that go more toward convenience and ease of use, not necessities. Here are some head scratchers and other modifications and observations:

1) Unless you're over 6' tall (and your sailing partner(s) are over 6') the helm seat is too low. We had ours modified to raise it 6 inches and install a foot rest that we can stand on to see over both bows. Also the helm seat is only moderately comfortable. The helm seat on the Lagoon 40 is much better. We plan to eventually replace the helm seat with something nicer.

2) There are not enough handholds outside. We've added handholds near the steps going down from the helm. It's most useful when going down into the cockpit while underway and an excellent addition. We don't care for the integrated hand hold along the sides of the coach roof. We plan to put SS handholds there as well. This is a dislike. Also the integrated hand holds act as gutters but they empty onto the saloon windows so the windows can't be opened even during a sprinkle. A definite dislike.

3) There are no gates on the side decks and we added pelican clips to create gates.

4) The port and starboard nav lights on the bows are in a bad location. When one attaches to a mooring ball the lights are vulnerable to being pulled out of the deck by the lines. We had them moved a few inches to alleviate the problem.

5) The Delta anchor in inadequate in my opinion, we upgraded to a Rocna 33 and are very pleased.

6) We have a sea water pump in the galley. It was originally a foot pump, Lagoon switched to an electric push button pump. It was very awkward to use because it had to remain pressed to activate the pump. It's hard to rinse dishes with one hand pressing the button. We had it modified to a push button that remains on until pushed again. We wish it was a non-electric foot pump.

7) All the fridges and freezer need more insulation and better ventilation. This is a "to do" item.

8) The shower on the owner's side needed a higher dam between the shower floor and the rest of the head to prevent water from running from the shower onto the rest of the floor. We made this fix. It's hard to remember to constantly press the sump pump button, even when taking a sailor's shower.

9) We added a second water tank in the port locker. We have a generator so there was no room in the starboard locker. It's about 65-70 gallons. We will add a water maker later.

10) Removed the factory inverter and installed a 2500 watt inverter.

11) Installed an "out-of-the-way" master switch for the hot water heater so that it would not be turned on accidentally.

12) All the heads, and cabins need additional towel bars and hooks.

13) Plan to add a fold-down seat in the owner's shower.

14) There needs to be more outlets and USB ports, etc. We have added additional above what the factory added as an option.

15) We've installed a large flat screen TV above the freezer.

16) Get 2 electric winches at the helm, love them.

17) You will see some negative reviews of the davit system. We initially didn't like the looks of it and planned to install a horizontal winch similar to the system on the Leopards. After a good orientation on how to properly use the davit system, we are very happy with it. Extremely easy to use with a power winch at the helm. We've used it dozens of times, smooth as silk.

18) Our heads are salt water, added commodorators (sp?). It's a system that introduces a small amount of chlorine into the bowel with each flush. Keeps the toilets "fresh".

We've made a few other modifications, but I can't recall them all at the moment. As I said earlier there really isn't much we dislike, but there are obviously many things we've modified and more to come.

Go to the Lagoon 42 Owner's FB page and you will see discussions and many of the modifications various owners have made. We've gotten many ideas from the FB page and by talking with other owners.

My wife and I have owned other sailboats and spent time on dozens of boats over the years. We know every boat is a compromise and will have a few shortcomings. Likewise, we knew we'd modify any sailboat we bought. The Lagoon 42 has exceeded our expectations on most accounts. We thought we'd find more things that just didn't work for us. Thus far we are at a 9 or 9.5 on a scale of 1-10.

A couple of days into our most recent sailing trip I said to my wife "you know what?" She replied " you love our boat, so do I - it's what we've always hoped it would be." She must have said she loved the boat 2 or 3 times a day for two weeks. We've owned old boats that required lots of work. We've cruised on boats that just didn't work well for us. We've done offshore passages on different boats and we understand what we need and want - Ocean Song has delivered for us thus far.

There are other excellent choices out there, but safety and ease of use are our top priorities and I think we've found both. I've been offshore on another Lagoon 42 and they are solid boats. Also, a friend has delivered about 4 from France to the Caribbean as well as delivered 4 or 5 from the east coast of the US to Tortola. I did one delivery of a 42 with him. He's made more than 35 Atlantic crossings on various sailboats and done dozens of shorter deliveries. He gives the Lagoon 42 a big thumbs up for safety and ease of use, particularly sailing by a short-handed crew. I trust his opinion and he thinks the Lagoon 42 is superior to it's competitors from R&C and FP. He has delivered them all across oceans.

[Steve_C]

Great Info!!!!

It would seem all of these are either minor or fairly easy to address. I have found the Helm seat on ALL of the Lagoons to be really lacking, and having spent many hours offshore I find that to be vitally important. It was definitely on my list for an upgrade no matter what Lagoon (or really most any other) Cat I end up with.

I also have very clear intentions to upgrade the fridge/freezer situation as its a known deficiency as well as upgrading the Kitchen to All Electric and do away with the propane.

The Handhold/Gutter thing is a real bummer. Not sure how easy it would be to keep it from draining on your windows.

As for the shower, I have seen many good suggestions for that from a float switch to a timer that you set.

Certainly no show stoppers on your list, and as you say everything else really works well.

Thanks again for the feedback.

[CatNewBee]

Hi there,

the helm seat of the 400 is not so good either, we will make our own seat with a better back support and a higher, more comfy seating.

Electric install is basic from Lagoon, we added 5x double USB sockets everywhere, including on the nav station and on the helm, electric re-fit see link below.

We will replace the shower sump pump with an automatic draining system, like the bilge pump, so no more push buttons when showering.

We think about a re-fit of a residential fridge freezer tower instead of the top loader freezer at the entrance and a residential fridge without a freezer compartment for the fridge under the countertop.

We also will add a diesel air heater for colder climates, the A/C is inefficient as heating source.

But all in all, it is a great boat, it is primarily built and outfitted for charter and vacations, as liveaboard you need to adjust some of the installations.

Also upgraded Lewmar 25kg Anchor to Mantus 85lbs.

[Steve_C]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Hi there,

the helm seat of the 400 is not so good either, we will make our own seat with a better back support and a higher, more comfy seating.

Electric install is basic from Lagoon, we added 5x double USB sockets everywhere, including on the nav station and on the helm, electric re-fit see link below.

We will replace the shower sump pump with an automatic draining system, like the bilge pump, so no more push buttons when showering.

We think about a re-fit of a residential fridge freezer tower instead of the top loader freezer at the entrance and a residential fridge without a freezer compartment for the fridge under the countertop.

We also will add a diesel air heater for colder climates, the A/C is inefficient as heating source.

But all in all, it is a great boat, it is primarily built and outfitted for charter and vacations, as liveaboard you need to adjust some of the installations.

Also upgraded Lewmar 25kg Anchor to Mantus 85lbs.

I intend to copy much of what you have done. That's one of my big issues, I can find a L400 right now for well over $100k cheaper than an L42. I can do a lot of upgrades for $100K.

Definitely need to plan for the upgrades when deciding on the budget.