400: Lagoon 400 partition wall crack

[Be Free Sailor]

Hi
Is this normal? See attached image.
I am not near to the boat, as I am in the process of signing a sales agreement, before traveling 4.000 miles to inspect and survey the vessel.
Looking at this picture, I would like to ask if other L400 owners if this is normal?
Could just be a result of hull flexing....?
Thanks for taking the time.
//Salomon

[motion30]

Not sure if this is your problem but Google Lagoon bulkhead problems. Read all the articles. Inform yourself before you purchase this boat

[Shrew]

Lagoon owners have been reporting a number of issues with bulkheads and tabbing (or lack thereof) failing.

There are a huge number of discussions out there and You tube posts as well. Parley Revival (the guy from Below Decks) filmed extensively on his fix of his Lagoon.

I think you know what the answer is. You're likely just hoping someone will say "Don't worry about grenading your dream, just do it!!" bulkheads aren't designed to flex and certainly not designed to crack.

I'd pause and do a ton more research first.

[Be Free Sailor]

Thanks guys. I appreciate you trying to help. However YouTube and/or google is not the solution, at least not in this case :=)
Also L450 if a totally different design (Parlay Revival).
I do not believe this is necessarily due to any serious structural issue.
Hull flex happens when the boat moves, big waves, heavy weather etc.
Hull flex sometimes happens when a haul out is not done correctly, and the lifting points are not carefully selected to be under the fore and aft structural bulkheads.
Any L400 owners out there, who can confirm or add to this?
L400 did have problems with water under the water tanks, and there was a recall to fix this. Different problem, different thread
PS. This is not a structural bulkhead, it is a thin partition wall, which could be removed without changing much, regarding the structural integrity of the vessel.

[donradcliffe]

Google just Lagoon 400 bulkhead cracks.

[Fore and Aft]

Maybe I am an unlucky surveyor, but Lagoons with bulkhead issues are so common. What will be interesting on that lagoon bulkhead crack is the bulkhead bilge attachment. Probably cracked green filler I am betting. I am not bashing Lagoons, thousands have been built.
Cheers

[Matt Johnson]

Not saying you're incorrect, but what is making you think this is a non-structural bulkhead? In the photos I'm seeing of the aft cabin of a Lagoon 400, that bulkhead would typically be structural and carrying the rigging loads from the chainplate.

[Tin Tin]

There are surveyors who will do a preliminary inspection for a reduced fee, get one that has done plenty of cats. We had one done, the guy did a video walk through and commentary on all the dodgy bits of the boat we were interested in. His comments were that the boat was surprisingly sound despite the poor cosmetic look. We did not proceed as even the cosmetics looked like too much work.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Be Free Sailor

Thanks guys. I appreciate you trying to help. However YouTube and/or google is not the solution, at least not in this case :=)
Also L450 if a totally different design (Parlay Revival).
I do not believe this is necessarily due to any serious structural issue.
Hull flex happens when the boat moves, big waves, heavy weather etc.
Hull flex sometimes happens when a haul out is not done correctly, and the lifting points are not carefully selected to be under the fore and aft structural bulkheads.
Any L400 owners out there, who can confirm or add to this?
L400 did have problems with water under the water tanks, and there was a recall to fix this. Different problem, different thread
PS. This is not a structural bulkhead, it is a thin partition wall, which could be removed without changing much, regarding the structural integrity of the vessel.

I am sorry, but properly designed sailboats in the size we are talking about here do NOT flex enough to tear themselves apart.

Most mass market cats are NOT designed with proper care to structural integrity. I know that is not a popular thing to say, but it is true. A boat in a seaway should NOT creak and groan. It should be silent except for wind and waves. Every part of the boat should be part of the structure. All the furniture, every bulkhead, should tabbed to the hull making a monocoque structure that does not--can not--flex. I know this goes counter to the advertiing puffery that Group Beneteau publishes, but they have boats to sell, I do not.

You say this is not a structural bulkhead. I counter that with IT SHOULD BE. If the boat flexes that much in that spot, it needs more support. Period.

I know that the majority of builders that aim to sell to the charter market (and Lagoon is certainly in this class) simply can not afford to build this way. But that doesn't make it right for an ocean going boat that is expected to cross oceans for decades.

You are free to believe this is not a structural failing. You are also free to believe in the easter bunny.

[massnspace]

Run!!!

[Be Free Sailor]

Thank you for the valuable input - this is exactly what I was looking for.
A new Lagoon is built for the charter market, no question about it, however on the 2nd hand Lagoon market, most buyers are long term coastal and/or sometimes long distance off-shore cruisers.
5+ years old Lagoons (or FP, or Leopard etc), originally designed for coastal charter, designed/built (I expect, intentionally) for that purpose, I totally agree are not designed/built strong/well enough to allow for many years of offshore sailing without issues.
If money was no object, I would not be sailing Lagoons, true.
I can accept going offshore in a boat that is noisy and not intended for that purspose, that is OK. I want to be sailing a cat, and I probably can't afford anything but a Lagoon.
My last mono was an Amel SM, that should say a lot...I really really really wanted a cat...and with the money from selling the Amel, all I could get was a Lagoon! Supply and demand? I guess there is a LOT OF DEMAND for Lagoon cats, it is so weird - makes no sense...a bit like the Easter Bunny
Looking at the location of the chainplate you are 100% correct, Matt...holy S***...I can not believe the flimsy partition wall is actually designed to help distribute the loads of the back stays...F*** me sideways!
Maybe I should build a shed, buy some beautiful Schionning plans, and start working
And there is no cure for the "cat flue"....no going back to a mono....guess I am doomed

[caradow]

I do understand your desire for going to a cat.
However you apparently have a L 380 and was wondering why the desire for the 40? Maybe a bit more spacious?

[CAT-SAIL]

Relocating from EU to US
I am selling the 380 in EU (VAT paid) and buying a US boat
Doing so saves me a lot of time and hassle.

[merrydolphin]

Beware beware! A lot of problems with these boats. And it can get expensive and quite involved. Lots of information out there. Beware. And no it’s not “ normal”.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Be Free Sailor

Maybe I should build a shed, buy some beautiful Schionning plans, and start working

That is not necessarily going to prevent cracks and failures. Parked next to us in Richard's Bay was a beautiful professorially built Schoinning which had flexed enough that the main bulkhead at the aft end of the deck cabin had broken on both sides and the large wrap-arpound forward windows were also broken apparently the result of an extra large (designer approved) window being installed on the starboard side of said aft bulkhead.

The owner was disappointed in the failure but undaunted. He loved the fact that the boat never dropped below 12 kts coming down the Mozambique channel from the Seychelles. The boat was repaired on site.

If you buy a broken boat, be prepared to fix it.