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arsenelupiga · 02-02-2017, 23:42

update on my nacelle issue

As there was no damage from water, after thorough inspection, I have left boat as is but applied drainage thru holes Lagoon suggested to drill so that inside has no water(instead of permanent 2 litres or so).

Except moisture that arrives most days and is 'pumped' out same day by drainage.

The other day I have replaced front windows seal with sikaflex. Removing old stuff could see moisture and dirt behind sikaflex. HAve redone bottom part of the front windows only and now I can see after 1 week my drainage is actually dry.

So I have now decent hope re-seal has removed root cause of the issue.

One can check seal functionality with knife inserted in seal and carefully push down. If bond is good, this can be clearly seen. I only replaced where seal knife test showed no bond.

peterp · 03-02-2017, 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

update on my nacelle issue

As there was no damage from water, after thorough inspection, I have left boat as is but applied drainage thru holes Lagoon suggested to drill so that inside has no water(instead of permanent 2 litres or so).

Except moisture that arrives most days and is 'pumped' out same day by drainage.

The other day I have replaced front windows seal with sikaflex. Removing old stuff could see moisture and dirt behind sikaflex. HAve redone bottom part of the front windows only and now I can see after 1 week my drainage is actually dry.

So I have now decent hope re-seal has removed root cause of the issue.

One can check seal functionality with knife inserted in seal and carefully push down. If bond is good, this can be clearly seen. I only replaced where seal knife test showed no bond.

Did you remove the old sikaflex completely or whatever the filler is prior to resealing.??

arsenelupiga · 03-02-2017, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterp

Did you remove the old sikaflex completely or whatever the filler is prior to resealing.??

no. If bond was good, I left it, assuming sikaflex will bond well to itself (or whatever was there before).

Surprisingly, I had ingress from upper side of bond. Capilar force at work here. I identified bad spot, cut into it. Then was able to pull out sections like spaghetti until I got to firm area where I stopped. And then worked other side until healthy bond from both sides. Faulty bond area was brown, from air pollution i guess.

katsumi · 03-02-2017, 13:31

Hi Guys
I also thought the water ingress was coming from our windows as we had some issues with them. But there is a small sill runs right around the base which the windows attach to, there are no penetrations that water can get to the anchor locker, that I can see. Just out of interest what was the sika product you used for resealing ?
We have redone ours using Sika roof and gutter and over a year now and is holding real good, we did completely remove windows and all old adhesives prior, used the Sika products (primer etc) recommended for Acrylic windows for bedding the window panels to the structure. Then the Sika roof and gutter for the backfill around the widow panels, as it has way better elasticity qualities and suitable for acrylic windows, especially large window panels such as these.
I am interested if anyone else has some thoughts on where the water comes from, maybe down the mast? we wash our anchor chain with fresh water and I assumed this was the main source, as the shelf was not completely glassed so water got into the void space under the water tanks.
We had rotten shelf and some rot in the bulkhead base, all was removed and the whole bulkhead is completely glassed and the new shelf is glassed completely inside and out with limber holes air flow holes inside the void oh and 4 descent size drain holes at the low points where the water would sit, just the fibre glass that covers the bulkhead is now stronger than the original bulkhead. Thanks to the help of Vicsail and shipwright we have taken a shotgun to the water tank void issue.

arsenelupiga · 03-02-2017, 15:31

you have done great job there!

I used sikaflex 295 UV, white. Got recommended in yahoo lagoon forum.

Water comes in on rainy and sunny days. So it must be related to condensation. We also wash anchor but do not anchor that often to matter.

This is my research so far:

-kitchen roof lekage - cant be - all dry and no marks on roof inside.
-mast unlikely as there in no condensation in mast (?) Volume of water daily (when there is leak) produces around 200 drops of water - i can roughly estimate from time to dry and number of drops per minute. Hard to see how would this kind of volume of water be generated within mast. Mast is covered on top as well.

-Moisture coming from water into chain locker and then somehow sucked into void. Possible however, I have noticed water ingress after washing boat.

Windows are still top suspect. Although there is clear sill, water from sill is disposed on a side. I smelled rot, in bathroom, that alerted me to check. First bottom draw from main bath, remove bottom, i was able to see traces of water. Fixing window stopped leakage and rot smell.

My point is that drainage of sill may go differently lagoon has planned as wood rot should not be part of it.

thats that. If it holds another 2 weeks, I will celebrate and keep checking drainage to alert me new leak developed so i fix it.

Else back to drawing board

Savanna · 06-02-2017, 11:13

Having poked around with a screwdriver looking for soft patches in the water tank shelf, and not finding any, I thought I should at least drill the two holes as recommended by Lagoon. I drilled the starboard side first as access was easier (no starboard water tank) with a 10 mm drill bit as low as I could get. The result was a solid stream of water, so I also created a 150 mm hole in the top of the shelf for an inspection port. The inspection port hole allowed me to have a good look inside the cavity with a small torch, and to mop out the rest of the water. I estimate that the starboard cavity contained about 5 litres of water. As noted by others it is impossible to drill the drain hole low enough for all the water to run out. Given the amount of water, I thought that a larger drain hole was warranted, and I created a 50 mm drain hole with a hole saw (which will reduce to about 40 mm when I line the hole with epoxy to seal the exposed plywood).

The plywood in the 50 mm plug (which was about 40 mm long) was relatively dry, probably due to the fact that the inside walls of the cavity had been sealed. However the plywood in the 150 mm plug taken out to fit an inspection port was soaked as the ceiling of the cavity had not been sealed. Fortunately, after drying out the cavity, the plywood which makes up the ceiling (and the water tank shelf), seems to be solid.

Accessing the port side was more difficult. All of the anchor chain needed to be removed first. This time instead of exploring with a 10 mm hole, I straight away used the hole drill to create a 50 mm drain, and also cut out a 150 mm hole in the shelf for an inspection port. This time there was only about 2 litres of water, and the ceiling of the cavity was dry.

I firmly believe that the water has come in as a result of the sealant holding in the main windows having failed at a number of points, but especially at the curve on the starboard side. I have had the main windows professionally reset. Hopefully this will resolve the problem.

tuskie · 06-02-2017, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savanna

I also created a 150 mm hole in the top of the shelf for an inspection port. The inspection port hole allowed me to have a good look inside the cavity with a small torch, and to mop out the rest of the water.

Inspection ports are a great idea. No only will these allow regular inspection, they will also allow you access to drill pilot holes to position drainage holes in the lowest parts of the nacelle.

When completing our warranty repair we positioned 3 drain holes, one on each side and one centre nacelle. These were positioned in the low spots, not the ones recommended by Lagoon. The position recommended by the Lagoon Technical Notice would have allowed approximately 2 litres of water to remain in the central part of the nacelle. This would cause no problems if, and only if, the plywood of the bulkhead and water tank shelf was completely sealed in fibreglass. This was not the case in the original construction, as Lagoon obviously thought that this area would remain dry.

As many previous threads have discussed; any structural rot to the water tank shelf is of minor consequence. Rot effecting the main bulkhead, particularly the lower, outboard sections is a much more serious issue. If this area has not been repaired and all timber fully sealed in fibreglass it should be closely monitored by regular inspections.

arsenelupiga · 07-02-2017, 22:53

now after lots of rain, I am sure:

reason for filling nacelle on my L400 were leaky front windows. Resealing stopped water coming in. Not extremely shocking... I have learned how to do it

I will keep drainage in holes instructed by lagoon, so I get alerted when wet -> windows leak again. Inspection 1 x per 3 mths will do.

I have not noticed any damage, looks like leaking started relatively recent.

Thanks Brett for highlighting this issue on CF.

Tobbe · 12-02-2017, 05:11

Great forum, thx everybody [emoji2][emoji106] Learned a lot. Mine, hull 530, out of factory 1st of June, visit factory end of May, what will I expect? Asked the dealer of course...

tuskie · 12-02-2017, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobbe

Great forum, thx everybody [emoji2][emoji106] Learned a lot. Mine, hull 530, out of factory 1st of June, visit factory end of May, what will I expect? Asked the dealer of course...

Hey, Tobbe. Congratulations on your new L400!

With any new boat expect a few "teething" issues ( as in new baby), such as hose clamps working loose, electronics not properly communicating, etc. Even if you have done this many times before you will have a steep learning curve of understanding how everything works.

When you visit the factory, please ask how rain water gets into the void below the water tank of the L400. Don't let them tell you that it won't happen and make sure that this area has drain holes. We will solve this mystery yet!

Savanna · 01-03-2017, 08:10

Further to my post #111 of 07-02-2017, I have found that when washing down my anchor chain inside the locker, that water was entering the 50 mm drain hole I had created on the port side. Given that due to difficult access to drill the drain hole in the first place a significant lip remains which prevents all of the water in the cavity draining out by itself, by washing down the anchor chain I was putting water into the cavity.
I have fixed this problem by gluing in a 50 mm drain plug, although this now prevents the cavity from breathing and thus drying out any water which may still be seeping in. Hopefully having had the main windows reset will have stopped any seepage, but it is too soon to be absolutely certain.

arsenelupiga · 01-03-2017, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savanna

Further to my post #111 of 07-02-2017, I have found that when washing down my anchor chain inside the locker, that water was entering the 50 mm drain hole I had created on the port side. Given that due to difficult access to drill the drain hole in the first place a significant lip remains which prevents all of the water in the cavity draining out by itself, by washing down the anchor chain I was putting water into the cavity.
I have fixed this problem by gluing in a 50 mm drain plug, although this now prevents the cavity from breathing and thus drying out any water which may still be seeping in. Hopefully having had the main windows reset will have stopped any seepage, but it is too soon to be absolutely certain.

you still need to be able to inspect if any water at regular intervals. Our windows seals gave up after 2.5 years. Expect new seals to not last longer. I have checked again and confirm window resealing fixed the issue. However, couple drops still coming in thru drilled holes when washing chain and in strong seaway when slamming. Not a problem as water drains in couple hours. Also, inside wood is glassed, so even if water inside, dont see much of an issue if leaving last 2 litres in, but better safe than sorry.

peterp · 01-03-2017, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsumi

Hi Guys
We had rotten shelf and some rot in the bulkhead base, all was removed and the whole bulkhead is completely glassed and the new shelf is glassed completely inside and out with limber holes air flow holes inside the void oh and 4 descent size drain holes at the low points where the water would sit, just the fibre glass that covers the bulkhead is now stronger than the original bulkhead. Thanks to the help of Vicsail and shipwright we have taken a shotgun to the water tank void issue.

Hello Kasumi, I have copied part of your post above as it is much the same as I experienced last December when I decided to get my shotgun out!!, so December was antifoul time for me and any other bits requiring attention but the water tank shelf was the big one, I thought a big job messy and difficult to get to however I had my shipwrights do as you have done and Vicsail were very helpful in having it all done under Lagoon warranty which speaks volumes for Lagoon and Vicsail. My guys did well it is now better than new with permanent 50MM inspection holes and glassed under and over, finally the whole locker flow coated.