400: Lagoon 400 vs Lipari 41?

[capcook]

Originally Posted by paulrack

It was about R3.4m. That price is with a comprehensive inventory such as Fridge, freezer, C90w chartplotter, radar, 1000l water tanks, 800l diesel tanks, 30hp motors (volvo or Yanmar), vhf, stackpack, rollerfurler, stern shower, shore power, inverter, hot water launching, antifouling etc etc. I have quickly learned that you need to look at what is included when you look at prices.

Sounds like a very well equiped vessel for US$ 470k... You will have to let us know who she sails and send us Pics.... Enjoy...

Cheers

[asb]

Talking about light weather performance, I have attached two short videos.

The boat is an FP Athena 38, sailing with genoa (not a gennaker). As you can see in the video, light weather performance of that FP is quite good. You don't need a gennaker with this kind of performance.

5.1 knots at 7.6 knots wind and
7.5 knots speed at 12.6 knots wind

The route in the video is from Gocek to Marmaris in SW Turkey. I will be sailing exactly the same route in couple of days. Hopefully we come across a nice weather like in the video.

YouTube - gocek-marmaris 3

YouTube - gocek-marmaris 2

[asb]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Asb,

I don't know to whom you have spoke to but Lipari won't be in İst boat show, for sure. FP will have Orana 44 3 cabin version in Pendik. No idea for Lagoon 400..
I know that the Lipari that we ordered is the first one in Turkey and some more orders have been taken later. Our boat will be delivered late Jan 2010 and be ready for 2010 charter season in Marmaris. (4 cabins version)
Cheers

Yeloya

Thats bad news. I must have been misinformed. It would have been a great chance to compare two models same day.

Some other time maybe.

[Spellbinder II]

Compared both the Lipari and Lagoon at Southampton. One point that hasn't been raised, but I would certainly check out before buying, is can you live with the bimini on the Lipari?

Unless you are a hobbit, it's almost impossible to go forward without cracking your shoulder on the steeply swept down corners of the bimini. With time you would learn to drop a couple of feet to clear it but the real show stopper for me was that from the helming station it's impossible to see either stern. The salesperson suggested that you would drop down into the cockpit and steer from there. We tried it, but when you do, it’s impossible to reach the wheel never mind the throttles. Stern to berthing would be a nightmare. I'm six two so no giant.

[peterp]

Hello everyone, I have been checking out cats for about the last 6 years here in Australia, the Lightwave 38 was always my favourite however always wanted something just a bit bigger, but could not afford there new 45 so when Seawind realeased there new 1250 (41ft) a few weeks ago I flew to Sydney for a sail and a thorough check over let me say both the Seawind and the Lightwave 38 are excellent craft built by first class folk. The first Lagoon 400 arrived in Sydney just a few days later, well after one day on the 400 I brought it, will be here in Melbourne about September 2010, I did study the Lipari on the net and had several chats with the Lipari rep here who was most helpfull, but it did not appeal to me.
The test sail of the 400 was on Sydney harbour with the Lagoon dealer and two helpers and I, full fuel no baggage 1/4 water, wind was about 6 knts gusting to 18 knts, at first I asked if the instruments were accurate as in 7 / 8 knts it was indicating about 5 / 6 kts I thought this can not be correct as it weghts appx 9.5 tons however as the craft was ready for it's new owner the instrument callibration had been finalized, and it did feel like that sort of speed, we carried out several tacks and jibes, excellent, I felt the steering was smooth and responsive, in the various wind forces it always did better than wind speed, best gps on the day was about 9 kts.
Fit and finish: overall very good, some floor squeaks but no more than any other cat. Options: I chose two fridges with small freezers, and hopefully Lagoon will have ready a 60 ltr freezer that fits neatly in the locker under the steering station, mine will have the new upper storage locker, I feel we will have plenty of storage, the third bedroom we will never use, so with the clever v bed we will use that cabin for dedicated storage / workshop. Engines 39 hp, genset to run the aircon, invertor, solar panels, dual gps, radar, square top main, electric winches, washing machine, microwave, and I will have a screecher made locally. Livability: When I first sighted the 400 I thought wow that is huge, well, inside it is so roomy, the owners dedicated owners starboard hull is the best setup I have seen it just seems right, the interaction between the saloon and the cockpit is excellent, I have chosen the same size table for the outside as the inside. I chose the two head option, which I havent seen in the flesh but feel is the best option for us. Outside: very first thing that impressed me was the wide clear decks with recessed hatches nothing to trip over, goodly amount of grab rails, great for a fit 68 year old. Dislikes: somewhat awkward to clamber up on to the coachhouse roof to attend to the lazy jack I need to have some sort of step up made, the rear steps did not have any grab handles or safety wire, I will have handles fiited, the sheer size of the hulls make for roomy living, however if one wanted to disambark from the sides under some circumstances the height may present a problem firstly there is no option on my list that allows for exit gates, I will have them made, secondly I think I may have a custom made boarding ladder just in case. Summary: I have brought it, why? not any one reason but many small reasons, is it a hand made masterpiece? of course not, is functional ? very, is it livable ? very, does the package offer value for money for what it offers in a 11.970 meter cat ? without doubt.
Now getting back to the question asked, Lipari versus Lagoon 400 I havent seen the Lapari in the flesh but I'm sure it's fine, as always one buys what suits. My thoughts for what it's worth............

[hanafe]

Congratulation. I am very happy with my L 400.
To see more you should go to the lagooncatowners : Lagoon Catamaran Owners Group

and sign on as a member.

HanaFe
L 400

Originally Posted by peterp

Hello everyone, I have been checking out cats for about the last 6 years here in Australia, the Lightwave 38 was always my favourite however always wanted something just a bit bigger, but could not afford there new 45 so when Seawind realeased there new 1250 (41ft) a few weeks ago I flew to Sydney for a sail and a thorough check over let me say both the Seawind and the Lightwave 38 are excellent craft built by first class folk. The first Lagoon 400 arrived in Sydney just a few days later, well after one day on the 400 I brought it, will be here in Melbourne about September 2010, I did study the Lipari on the net and had several chats with the Lipari rep here who was most helpfull, but it did not appeal to me.
The test sail of the 400 was on Sydney harbour with the Lagoon dealer and two helpers and I, full fuel no baggage 1/4 water, wind was about 6 knts gusting to 18 knts, at first I asked if the instruments were accurate as in 7 / 8 knts it was indicating about 5 / 6 kts I thought this can not be correct as it weghts appx 9.5 tons however as the craft was ready for it's new owner the instrument callibration had been finalized, and it did feel like that sort of speed, we carried out several tacks and jibes, excellent, I felt the steering was smooth and responsive, in the various wind forces it always did better than wind speed, best gps on the day was about 9 kts.
Fit and finish: overall very good, some floor squeaks but no more than any other cat. Options: I chose two fridges with small freezers, and hopefully Lagoon will have ready a 60 ltr freezer that fits neatly in the locker under the steering station, mine will have the new upper storage locker, I feel we will have plenty of storage, the third bedroom we will never use, so with the clever v bed we will use that cabin for dedicated storage / workshop. Engines 39 hp, genset to run the aircon, invertor, solar panels, dual gps, radar, square top main, electric winches, washing machine, microwave, and I will have a screecher made locally. Livability: When I first sighted the 400 I thought wow that is huge, well, inside it is so roomy, the owners dedicated owners starboard hull is the best setup I have seen it just seems right, the interaction between the saloon and the cockpit is excellent, I have chosen the same size table for the outside as the inside. I chose the two head option, which I havent seen in the flesh but feel is the best option for us. Outside: very first thing that impressed me was the wide clear decks with recessed hatches nothing to trip over, goodly amount of grab rails, great for a fit 68 year old. Dislikes: somewhat awkward to clamber up on to the coachhouse roof to attend to the lazy jack I need to have some sort of step up made, the rear steps did not have any grab handles or safety wire, I will have handles fiited, the sheer size of the hulls make for roomy living, however if one wanted to disambark from the sides under some circumstances the height may present a problem firstly there is no option on my list that allows for exit gates, I will have them made, secondly I think I may have a custom made boarding ladder just in case. Summary: I have brought it, why? not any one reason but many small reasons, is it a hand made masterpiece? of course not, is functional ? very, is it livable ? very, does the package offer value for money for what it offers in a 11.970 meter cat ? without doubt.
Now getting back to the question asked, Lipari versus Lagoon 400 I havent seen the Lapari in the flesh but I'm sure it's fine, as always one buys what suits. My thoughts for what it's worth............

[peterp]

Thanks Hanefe, I wonder do you have any advice re the L400, be gratefull for any input good or bad. I have to wait until September plenty of time to swat up on some of the systems such as how often do you run the gen set. The L400 I looked over was I believe hull no 2 I think I'm getting hull no 61,.
Regards Peter

[bayview]

Originally Posted by peterp

Thanks Hanefe, I wonder do you have any advice re the L400, be gratefull for any input good or bad. I have to wait until September plenty of time to swat up on some of the systems such as how often do you run the gen set. The L400 I looked over was I believe hull no 2 I think I'm getting hull no 61,.
Regards Peter

Congratulations peterp, Can you tells us why you chose the L400 over the lightwave and the seawind. We would be interested to learn from your experience.

Regards

[paulrack]

Congratulations on your new boat, I am sure everyone would love to hear your experiences of it.

[peterp]

Hello bayview, it was the overall package of the Lagoon 400 that suited me, particularly the length 11.97 m 40ft with the associated enlarged living area over the 38 footers I feel 40ft is the perfect size for us, longer than the Seawind 1160 and the Lightwave 38, the 40footer will carry that bit more payload gen set air con etc. and I think the Lagoon folk have done a great job on designe particularly on the ease of walking around the wide clean unclutered decks, the hatches are all flush fitted, I think the dedicated owners starboard hull is the best I have seen almost home away from home, I prefer not to climb up into a bed there is a better way and feel Lagoon have got it right, of course one has to be happy with the galley up designe, I also like the escape hatches in the hulls, I won't have the L400 until September this year so will report on how well the galley up actually works in practice, the layout of the saloon / cockpit area will help as in the new designe the outer area is an effecient extension of the galley, totally out of the weather in fact the demo had factory designed clears all around the outside making two living areas, with the same large table outside as inside it will make it very easy to pass food through to the outside area, even if it is raining with the factory clears up which fit neatly around the perimeter of the stern and sides connecting to the new full size bimini cover one could be enjoying a red in comfort. Prior to test sailing I was sure the Lagoon based on what Ive read would be a poor sailing craft well after spending a afternoon on Sydney harbour I was pleasently supprised it sailed extremely well every bit as good as the 38 footers and 41. The cost is greatly effected by the exchange rate in recent times our A$ has appreciated to the euro making anything out of Europe more attractive, simply because of this I was able to afford all the goodies. In summary I think it is a very comfortable cruiser with excellent sailing ability, does that mean the Lightwave and Seawind would be a poor choice of course not they are both first class craft built by dedicated folk, it's just on the day the Lagoon 400 has got it right for me, in a couple of years time I will advice if I have made the right choice.

[Garold]

Hi guys

I have just ordered a new Lagoon 400 to be delivered to UK April 2010.

I had a Lagoon 380 for two years and liked it but wanted to upgrade to the 400 for many reasons including living space, cockpit, bimini, island bed, better saloon layout, improved features such as larger calorifier & auto pumps in shower tray etc.

None of this detracts from the 380 which is a great boat but we liked the new features that the slightly larger boat should give us. On a test sail, the 400 seemed to sail marginally faster than the 380 on all points of sail. And more pointedly, given its unaerodynamic boxy styling, my wife and I felt that it was still a sailing boat rather than a motor sailor. We also recognise that we won't be chasing Catanas down the Solent!

However, when I bought the 380 we test sailed an FP Mahe as a comparison (and maybe to save some £) however, the philosophy of FP is to manufacture a more sporty vessel and this did not suit me in particular. The Mahe was faster and more dinghy-like to sail, but I found the motion too fidgety and unsettling and in fact felt quite seasick. The whole boat flexed to the extent that some of the doors opened themselves when sailing. I guess my conclusion was that I had grown older without noticing and a gentler ride from a heavier boat was more suited to me. Hence we bought and happily sailed the 380.

We did take a good look at the Lipari recently and saw many features that we liked but the FP 'weight-saving-for-speed' philosophy was still too evident. As a consequence we decided that the Lagoon 400 was a better choice for us.

My conclusion? The prices are very similar so it's down to what you want. If you desire a sporty & lively ride, and possibly a groovier looking boat, then probably go for the Lipari. If you are interested in a gentler motion maybe with a few more home comforts then go for the heavier but probably slightly slower Lagoon.

As for build quality, we have owned 4 Beneteau produced yachts so far and we are aware of where we are in the market place. You can't buy a Bentley on a Ford budget so no good fooling yourself. However, Lagoon/ Beneteau make good products at fair prices. They usually do what they promise and you have to put up with mid market quality finish. But they have enabled many of us to get into a level of yachting that just wasn't available before the mass producers arrived. Do they last over time. There seem to be plenty of 20+ year old Frech boats still sailing.

Cheers

Garold

[peterp]

Garold, congratulations, clearly we both liked the L400 I will have mine here in Melbourne Australia in September this year. I wonder did you order the freezer option or the draws, I ordered a second fridge in place of the draws they both have small freezers, I have also ordered a 60 litre dedicated freezer that fits below the helm seat where they fit the ice maker I felt I could live without the icemaker, also felt with the new overhead storage cupboard we would be ok without the draws.
Regards Peter

[Garold]

Peter

I have just replied to your other post on another thread.

However, answering the above, we have only ordered one fridge and no freezer. We thought that if we need it we would have one fitted later. Also, in the UK most of the time it's a bit chilly so we don't maybe need a fridge as much as you guys who sail in the warmth. The overheads add useful galley storage.

Cheers

Garold