420: Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans

[sail4evr]

I was trying to avoid an escalation.

[ess105]

Originally Posted by sail4evr

I was trying to avoid an escalation.

Me too. But it's all free speech. Everyone's entitled to their opinions.
There is value to be extracted from these comments. I can only speak for myself but I'm not offended.

[Badgerman]

Originally Posted by sail4evr

I was trying to avoid an escalation.

Hey guys.....I was the one laying down the five grand or so to charter an untested boat. If catco would have climbed aboard first maybe they wouldn't have added it to their charter fleet.

How the hell are you not going to PUSH a motor on a boat as heavy as the 420 when the motor is max rated at 13 hp????

I'm just warning off other prospective charter and 420 purchasers ......beware

[Badgerman]

Admittedly I should have used the term "yacht" instead of "tub".........I stand corrected

[ireaney]

Originally Posted by sail4evr

I was trying to avoid an escalation.

Hi Sail4evr, sorry, you are right maybe I should have bitten my lip or held my tongue, but he was annoying me greatly and I was fed up with his attitude, even though I don't have a 420 or will buy one, I like both the 420 and 440 but want a bit more performance and maybe less comfort, as has been said many times, everyone has different needs and we all respect constructive criticism.

[sail4evr]

I'm sure everyone appreciated your apology. The constructive comments you made were certainly more helpful.

Your gripe should be with Catco. Catco the charter company doesn't pick their boats. Catco the charter company is part of a group of companies. The other companies make much more money in selling new and used yachts of all types. (Does anybody know what the real mark up is on a new yacht?) They sell cats and offer a charter company in the BVIs to manage them and create some income for owners so that they can sell more boats. Boats only get into the fleet because somebody bought one.

Any defficiencies with the boat are Lagoon's fault, not Catco's fault, not the buyers. Catco is a dealer and is ogliged to sell all of Lagoon's products. The buyer is just doing the best he or she can with what's available for their own reasons.

Now your issues with the boat are with Catco and if you spoke reasonably enough with them they might give you a complimentary or reduced rate on your next charter with them. I know they do that if you can be convincing. If you can find misrepresentations or things like that. Or if things on the boat were working improperly or perhaps not to your satisfaction if that was warranted. I'm sure you realize that if they give you a complimentary week they will take that revenue away from the owner's boat you chartered to pay for the complimentary charter, so you would have to be very convincing for them to do that. Did you know you were getting onto what you call an "untested" boat? Did you research the boat before you agreed to the charter? Of all the issues you had with the boat, did they ever tell you that the boat was anything different? If so, you might have a case.

Bottomline...Did you really have an awful time?

[Badgerman]

Originally Posted by sail4evr

I'm sure everyone appreciated your apology. The constructive comments you made were certainly more helpful.

Your gripe should be with Catco. Catco the charter company doesn't pick their boats. Catco the charter company is part of a group of companies. The other companies make much more money in selling new and used yachts of all types. (Does anybody know what the real mark up is on a new yacht?) They sell cats and offer a charter company in the BVIs to manage them and create some income for owners so that they can sell more boats. Boats only get into the fleet because somebody bought one.

Any defficiencies with the boat are Lagoon's fault, not Catco's fault, not the buyers. Catco is a dealer and is ogliged to sell all of Lagoon's products. The buyer is just doing the best he or she can with what's available for their own reasons.

Now your issues with the boat are with Catco and if you spoke reasonably enough with them they might give you a complimentary or reduced rate on your next charter with them. I know they do that if you can be convincing. If you can find misrepresentations or things like that. Or if things on the boat were working improperly or perhaps not to your satisfaction if that was warranted. I'm sure you realize that if they give you a complimentary week they will take that revenue away from the owner's boat you chartered to pay for the complimentary charter, so you would have to be very convincing for them to do that. Did you know you were getting onto what you call an "untested" boat? Did you research the boat before you agreed to the charter? Of all the issues you had with the boat, did they ever tell you that the boat was anything different? If so, you might have a case.

Bottomline...Did you really have an awful time?

Compared to the 440?
Yes it was an awful time......especially since we hired an instructional captain. The oddball 420 made instruction difficult.
The bad ride totally changed our destination plans.
We were ready to get off that boat early......sorry to say.

[ess105]

Originally Posted by Badgerman

Yes it was an awful time......especially since we hired an instructional captain.

For a while there, I had the impression you may have been on my boat. However, one of the comments made by my charterer on the feedback form was "HAD A GREAT TIME - THANKS !!" so I guess I was wrong on that one.

How much experience did your instructional captain have on 420s prior to your trip? I didn't realize there had been enough time to build up competence on these boats as they haven't been down their that long? I wouldn't recommend using a new concept boat - perhaps one that had just arrived in the islands - for instruction. Particularly a boat which is set up so closely for single handing. I think I'm beginning to understand why your experience is so different from that of the owners and other experienced charterers I have spoken to.

[sail4evr]

Well Badger...Especially if you made the captain aware of your issues, I wouild take it up with Catco and use the captain for corroberation. What kept you from getting off the boat early? Did you voice that with the capt. Did he talk you out of it? You may very well have enough on your side to get some compensation from Catco. I don't know if too much time has passed. They may have already distributed the income to the owner and it may get a little sticky. credits and all that. When was it and what was the name of the boat? Dare I ask?
Be forewarned...they only give credits because they want you as a repeat customer. If you come across in any way as overly excited or undesirable to have a conversation with, like some of your posts here, they won't want you as a repeat customer.

[sail2wind]

As I have stated before, I (we) had a great time. We knew we were experimenting with a new boat and were intrigued with the motoring silently concept. As to why Badgerman needed an instructional Capt. is beyond me. The battery bank had 5 well defined positions, the sails are the same, albiet a little small, the throttles work like diesels, what was so confusing? Our briefer admittedly was somewhat familiar with the boat. Catco, Horizon and TMM sent people to Miami for instruction on the 420. Yes, we had a few issues with the 420. I've had issues with almost every charter boat we have rented, non have been perfect. As you all know by now my main issue was the lack of A/C as promised. This was not TMM's fault as I chartered directly from the owner. The owner's offer of a free sleep aboard was totally unacceptable, but I move on. I would not charter a boat without diesel engines again. One last comment, what in the hell is niggly? and I prefer Pegg's and Genaker to Mulligans, IMHO

[ireaney]

Niggly or niggling is, if not used in the states is an English term for little annoying issues, things that eat away at you because they should'nt be there but are, eg. you might hear a little squeak coming from somewhere but cannot pin point it and it only happens at certain times not all the time.

[sail4evr]

Where is Genakers? I've heard of it but never been there.

[sail2wind]

Genaker's is the cafe in Nanny Cay, between Horizon and Blue Water Divers. They have a very nice breakfast, cute little bar, free wireless internet, and looking over the docks, only open breakfast and lunch. We have stayed at the Nanny Cay Hotel before and after charters several times and loved it. Peg's has excellent food at very reasonable prices.

[ess105]

I still dream of the showers at Nanny Cay. Best on the island as far as I know.

[sail4evr]

Oh of course Genakers. I always think of it as the cafe. Foods good but the service sucks. I asked for whole wheat. It didn't look like whole wheat and they didn't give a s__t. Friendly but not service oriented...belongers (for those who don't know, that is the official term for people from Tortola. You can infer from that name that everyone else doesn't belong there and not always but often that attitude is unconsciously in their mannerisms). They prefer chatting at the bar to keeping an eye on the tables.

Mulligans...super friendly, service oriented, limited menu, burgers and dogs, but good food. Free barbeque Fri nights, MOB party once a month. It's actually most popular with non belongers who live and work on the island. Compared to Peggs...almost always lively. Sports bar, satellite dish, 10 ft outdoor screen for Sunday movie after dark. trampoline for kids. They want you to come back. What more can I say? Gennaker and Peggs could care less if you come back. Just ask them. The hesitation before they answer speaks louder than words.
The showers are very nice. Did you notice the tip jar on the desk for which they do nothing.
Now don't get me wrong I love the BVIs and the people are friendly. But if you need something from someone in a service business you expect service. But life is full of compromises isn't it? It's funny. I've been going to the BVIs for almost 30 years. But always during high season and the people were always friendly and helpful. A couple of years ago when we bought our boat we went down in off season, like Aug -Sept. We went around to different places and wondered where have all the people gone that we knew. Well they all went home to the other islands for vacation, Trinidad, Dominica, St. Lucia, St Vincent, Guyana (I know it's not an island), but you know what I mean. We found out that all the really friendly and helpful people we had encountered over the years were all from someplace else. They all came to Tortola because there was lots of work and they really appreciated having a job unlike the local people who really don't want to work. The people who were left, the belongers, didn't like waiting on tables or any other kind of service business. They all dream of 9-5 government jobs. They want to be beaurocrats (someone who gets paid for an 8 hr day but works for 3) Sad but true. I just spoke to a guy a few weeks ago who refinanced his house on Tortola...It took him a year because they are so slow!
But I still love the BVIs and the people are nice! Just whenever I meet someone really friendly who goes out of their way to be helpful, I always ask where they are from. Occasionally I am pleasantly surprised and I say to myself, ahhh there is hope.