420: Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans

[redbreast]

Hi i dont know anything about the Lagoon 420 , but have chartered the 380, found it a bit sluggish . How do you guys find the 420. We are going to buy something around this size , have now decided that we might need to beach it occasionally, can the 420 be beached what else endears you to them, what is there top speed under motor and under sail please. Any views welcome. Steve

[Spellbinder II]

Having read the entire thread and learnt so much about the 420 I though I ought to contribute something. Here is a summary of what Lagoon claim for the G2 upgrade. Perhaps owners who have had the upgrade can post their observations when they get chance.

Key features
- Quieter running at dock or underway through the ability to switch-off cooling fans and chargers.
- Addition of a boost button giving 10 minutes of full power (even if battery is below 60% charge)
- Additional 2 knots of speed in mode 4, as more genset power is distributed to propulsion.
- Emergency starting capability in the event of battery pack or circuit board failure.
- New engine controls, more adapted to the feel of regular throttle controls.

Post upgrade owners should expect the hybrid to deliver a maximum speed of 7.4 knots.

Performance varies by mode selected.

- Batteries at 100% and the generator started manually, 7.4 knots for 1h 20m.
- after full speed for 1h 20 m, the battery park will be at a 60% discharge level, and the speed will fall accordingly to approximately 6,5 knots in order for the genset to recharge the batteries up to an 80% level. From that point on, the speed increases to a constant approximate 6.8 knots.
- Batteries alone 6 knots for 1h 30m.

I hope this helps to demystify the G2 Upgrade. The hybrid's maximum speed of 7.4 knots doesn't seem that far of the twin 40hp diesel version (8 knots?).

Just need some owners to confirm that the upgrade delivers what is claimed!

[Spellbinder II]

Originally Posted by Mark424

can you comment more on what the G2 upgrade entails?

All retrofitting should be complete by end June 2008. The upgrade entails:

- add the digital battery control module to the circuit board.
- modify the parameters of the circuit board
- add new wiring harnesses
- add a switch to cut off the chargers and ventilators in certain modes
- add the new boost button
- change engine throttles to new model including the variator diagnostic LED indicator lights
- change the management board of the Onan genset.

[Karend007]

Not that I'm wishing this on anyone, but I am sitting in the Canaries contemplating my first ocean crossing in Oct/Nov this year and thinking about preparing for what I am sure is inevitable in any ocean sailors life - the storm. I am reading "Storm Tactics Handbook" by Lin and Larry Pardey and their discussions on heaving to and the use of para anchors to surive the storm as opposed to running before the storm. Has anyone had experience heaving to in a 420 or similar catamaran and can you discribe the method used. Has anyone deployed or carry a para anchor? The worst weather we have had in our Boat "Where II" was coming across the Bay of Biscay last November with Force 7 (gusting to 8) and about 5m waves according to my skipper at the time. We ran with the seas/winds under motor and the boat handled nicely - and this was our first time aboard any boat where we could not see land!

By the way Steve if all goes to plan we will be in the Caribbean from November, so hopefully we will catch up there.

Matt & Karen

[ess105]

I dismissed the idea of heaving to in a cat. We will rely on a para-anchor. Details have to be worked out though. I'm guessing that the para will need to be fed through something at the bow and back to the winches. We had the genika option installed so we have a winch on the port side that can be used. That's about as far as we've got. I intend to work this out during the first season aboard.

Will you have a website where I can track your progress. Current plans have us around St Martin in November and Antigua Dec/Jan. After that we're fairly open.

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by ess105

I dismissed the idea of heaving to in a cat.

I strongly suggest you undismiss it, practice doing it, and keep it in your bag of tricks. The principles to hove to in a cat are the same as a mono, with boat specific attributes to learn. Dismissing this tried and true boat handling staple altogether could be considered rather foolish. JMHO

Dave

[Sunset Key]

We carry a sea anchor and a drogue and have not needed them yet. We plan to rig the sea anchor on the bow with a bridle that uses an oversized block to allow playing out the 350' of line (and retrieveing it). We'll also use another oversized turning block at a stern cleat to get the line back to the winches.

[Troutbridge]

I have a Jordan series drogue & a para-anchor. From what I've read I wouldn't use heaving-to in a cat as a storm tactic. Either run streaming a drogue or use the para anchor. Obviously you have internet access so check out 'Maxingout'. He posts on this forum.
I had two large attachment eyes made up for the para anchor and for the series drogue I have two cleats on the inner section of each hull, leading back to winches.

[ess105]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

I strongly suggest you undismiss it, practice doing it, and keep it in your bag of tricks. The principles to hove to in a cat are the same as a mono, with boat specific attributes to learn. Dismissing this tried and true boat handling staple altogether could be considered rather foolish. JMHO

Dave

Fair point. I do actually intend to learn to heave to in my boat as well as lying ahull and have the techniques in my arsenal so to speak. I guess what I meant to say is that heaving to is not my first consideration.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by ess105

Fair point. I do actually intend to learn to heave to in my boat as well as lying ahull and have the techniques in my arsenal so to speak. I guess what I meant to say is that heaving to is not my first consideration.

Heaving to is my first consideration.
It allows comfortable time for further consideration and takes about the same amount of time as a tack.

[Spellbinder II]

Agree with earlier comments - its worth having all these techniques in the kit bag in the event of a storm. Having only been through two Force 10's on monohull delivery trips, it was engine on and run with the storm both times.

If you are going to deploy any sort of sea anchor / para or hove to, I would certainly ensure that you have practiced in advance and work out when you will deploy, because by the time you have storm force winds it is almost impossible to communicate on deck (wind noise is deafening) or move about except on all fours due to the motion and amount of water being shipped.

In each case its up to the skipper to decide what tactic to employ. Running engine on and steering at least gives the crew a (false?) sense of taking control of the situation. I personally would have found 18 hours of hove to akin to being tossed like a cork out of control. That doesn't mean to say that hove to would have been any more or less safe as an approriate storm tactic.

I'm not sure if the nav lights are 'standard' parts across Groupe Beneteau , but all nav lights (except mast head) on the Sun Odyssey 42 were washed away, making for an interesting last 600 miles. No emergency nav lights were onboard. Something for the spares box?

[Spellbinder II]

Being Hove to in a long gale is the most boring way of being terrified I know. - Donald Hamilton

Some thoughts on Active vs Passive Storm Tactics at US Sailing.

Heavy Weather

[Karend007]

Originally Posted by Mark424

Matt, can you comment more on what the G2 upgrade entails? I've only seem passing references to it. Any word from the street (sea) on how good the G2 improvements are in real life? Thanks Mark

Hi,

had my first sail with the G2 upgrades last week - a 100 mile passage from Santa Cruz de Tenerife to Santa Cruz de La Palma around the top of Tenerife. For anyone that knows this area - coming around the top of Tenerife goes straight through an accelleration zone where the wind speed may increase up to 100% or more. Well it didn't disappoint - we left the pontoon in about 8 knots and once we left the harbour we turned north into winds up to 26 knots on the nose and associated seas on an underlying 1 m swell. G2 did not disappoint either.

I turned the generator on just before we left the harbour so I had full access to power. It took me a little while but I balanced the power usage to generator output and motored into the 26+ knot winds for several hours at 5+ knots, pushing up to 6 knots at points - This was at 90 amps per motor which is not full throttle (even without the boost).

We turned west around the top of the island and motor sailed in 5-8 knot winds right up the rear (not the north easterlies promised - is God on vacation?)gusting up to maybe 11knots for three hours on batteries alone after getting the battery level up to about 95 percent.

Later in the night, after the generator had run for about 2 hours on automatic cycle in mode 5 the generator switched off and we again got 3 hours out of the battery at about 37.5amps per motor - we would have only got about 15-20 minutes out of G1.

I did not try the boost button as it was not necessary (would have been good to take on the fast ferry but Karen would not let me).

We also sleep better at night now with the charger switches and the throttles are alot better to work with - will be rethinking the need for getting tachos - not sure on that one yet. The engines now engage as soon as you move out of nuetral and it is easier to move around the marina.

The only issue we are having is that in our 220v boat, the chargers draw 16 amps or more and half the marinas I have been in only have 16 amp power outlets. This means I can't run the chargers and any 240 v first up when the chargers are in full cycle. I am talking to my broker and Lagoon about this to try and work out a strategy to manage this - at worse I can run the generator every now and then to fully charge the 72v - not a major problem - just an annoying hassle and more expensive than planned as we are paying for shore power.

All in all I am impressed with the G2 upgrade - I will need to be abit more like a yottie and watch my house batteries now as the 12v chargers cut out when the 72v gets down to 80% which actually stopped us motor sailing for over 3 hours on batteries alone on the second session mentioned above (but because we are new at this it was probably more cautionary then necessary - we switched the generator on at watch change after Karen and I discussed it).

Hope that gives you a bit of an idea - once I have given it full throttle and used the boost I will update you - this will probably be when Karen is asleep and I can challenge the ferries around here to a race. Check them out - Fred Olsons fast catamaran ferries their motor wash would go half way up my mast!

Matt.

Ps. I have had some very complementary comparisons of my boat here in the Canaries - A very nice french man visited our boat for apperitiffs one evening after spending the prior evening on a 48ft Fontaine Pajot - he was a monohuller from a very nice Amel 54ft - he liked our boat and said the accomodation was larger than the 48ft FP - unfortunately they left before I could verify his comments - it could have been the offer of Pastis. Also here in La Palma we pulled up next to a L380 and the owner commented that he could not believe that just 4 foot could give you such a bigger boat.

[Karend007]

[quote=Spellbinder II;169685]Agree with earlier comments - its worth having all these techniques in the kit bag in the event of a storm. Having only been through two Force 10's on monohull delivery trips, it was engine on and run with the storm both times.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts - the next 3 months are going to be interesting for Karen and I as we get ready for our first major passage where any reliable forecast will only cover about the first 20%.

We will look at spares and heavy weather kit and practice techniques in the acceleration zones around the island - I must say I shake at the thought of the Pardeys to go and look for bad weather to practice but it is probably what we should do

Cheers

Matt & Karen

[stoomy]

Originally Posted by ess105

Dave Tether who was the guy behind Solomon got ousted by the venture capitalists he brought in to expand his company. They are now more interested in pursuing a lawsuit than conducting marine business. I believe some of his know how made it to the Lagoon design.

It is my understanding that David Tether now works for Lagoon.