420: Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans

[Karibia]

Hello Lagoon 420 owners - Thanks for your help/advice.

I want To install A/C on my Lagoon 420 - 4 Cabins. Please advice recommended/best system, size of unit or units. How many BTU's??, what would be the expected HP (or Kw) need. Suggestions on location?
Thanks a million!!!!

[krafthaus]

Originally Posted by POH

Lagoon 420 owners - I'd love your help/advice.

I'm looking at a diesel 420 with 40hp engines.

The short production run (2007-2011) makes me wonder if there were so many issues with the 420 they had to be fixed in a 421 with a different name, rather than a 420 S2 etc.

Would love to hear from ACTUAL OWNERS (past or present) or charters about any issues you wish you'd known about before buying, performance, comfort, etc.

Those with diesels - were the 40hp engines good enough - I noticed a lot of people who replaced the hybrids have gone 75hp.

Thanks in advance.

We chartered a 420 in St. Lucia for 10 days in February and sailed to Grenada and back - 300nm on the trip log. Really enjoyed this boat - more than a Lagoon 400 or Moorings 4300 we have also chartered. 40HP Diesel engines were more than adequate and gave around 7 knots without difficulty. We sailed around 10 knots and up to 12 knots on a broad reach with true winds 20 - 25 knots running with 2 reefs in the main and full genoa. We encountered seas of 3 meters coming back around the north end of St. Vincent toward St. Lucia and the boat performed well sailing close hauled. We were pointing around 50 degrees apparent wind much of the time.

I looked back to some of my underwater pictures from our trip and the aft ends of the hulls do have the flattened cross section, but can't say that it seemed to be a problem when sailing at all. There were no gurgling sounds that I recall hearing. This has been mentioned on some other 420 threads.

I can't say much about low wind performance as we were in the trades and when the winds were lighter or we were beating and needed to get to a destination for the night we motor sailed. Didn't take much time to play around and test different sail plans or even run with the full main up.

We've booked the same boat for 13 days in Jan/14 and are heading north this time, so we'll have a chance to test it out some more.

[krafthaus]

Originally Posted by Karibia

Hello Lagoon 420 owners - Thanks for your help/advice.

I want To install A/C on my Lagoon 420 - 4 Cabins. Please advice recommended/best system, size of unit or units. How many BTU's??, what would be the expected HP (or Kw) need. Suggestions on location?
Thanks a million!!!!

The Lagoon 420 we chartered in St. Lucia did not have A/C. Highs were 27C/80F each and every day. With the breeze on the water, I can honestly say our charter group did not once comment that we wished we had air conditioning. In fact, the topic never came up.

There was always some shade and/or we kept the windows & doors open and it was fine. A quick swim was always refreshing.

So this is an interesting point and maybe some other owners or charterers can comment. Why would a person want the extra cost/maintenance/weight/expense of a large multi KW generator just to keep things cooled off a little from time to time? Temps in the Caribbean stay relatively constant 27C/80F year round. Perhaps during the summer months when it's rainy and humidity is higher?

I'm genuinely curious since this isn't a factor for when we buy a boat. In fact, I'd prefer if it didn't have this option to save on purchase cost.

Look forward to any comments.

[Jan B]

Originally Posted by POH

Lagoon 420 owners - I'd love your help/advice.

I'm looking at a diesel 420 with 40hp engines.

The short production run (2007-2011) makes me wonder if there were so many issues with the 420 they had to be fixed in a 421 with a different name, rather than a 420 S2 etc.

Would love to hear from ACTUAL OWNERS (past or present) or charters about any issues you wish you'd known about before buying, performance, comfort, etc.

Those with diesels - were the 40hp engines good enough - I noticed a lot of people who replaced the hybrids have gone 75hp.

Thanks in advance.

We are owners of a Lagoon 420 which we purchased and moved aboard in July, 2008. We have been living aboard for 4 1/2 years with our dog Daisy. Seas the Day was a hybrid and we had the conversion done one year ago. At this point almost all of the 420's have been converted. We got the twin 40 hp Yanmars and they are absolutely sufficient. POH said, "I noticed a lot of people who replaced the hybrids have gone with 75 hp," however, to our knowledge very few conversions installed the 75 hp Yanmars and the only advantage seems to be a little more speed but with added fuel consumption. We easily motorsail at 8 kts with our 40 hp engines.

We have always been confused about the often negative remarks about the Lagoon 420, especially on Cruisers Forum. We have never met any 420 owners, and we know quite a few, who don't love their boat. We have also never had a guest aboard who wasn't amazed at the roominess and comfort of the 420.

Yes, there were problems with the hybrid, but there were also advantages. The propulsion system was our only disappointment. The boat was slow, but when the conversion was completed and the heavy hybrid components were removed, our boat went up in the water and our speed increased dramatically, both sailing and motorsailing. When we first crossed from No Name Harbor to Bimini in 2010 with a 420 hybrid, we left at 0400 and arrived in Bimini at 1700. Every sailboat that left after us motorsailed past us that day. This January, our first trip to the Bahamas since the conversion, we raised the anchor at No Name at 0635 and with similar conditions we had that first trip, we were at a dock in Bimini at 1400. This time we passed every sailboat that left before us and no one passed us.

Someone on this forum thought that the 420 got such a bad reputation by some because of the problems with the hybrid system. I suppose that is correct, but anyone who buys a converted 420 is now getting a boat with a new propulsion system in a well designed, comfortable boat with excellent storage and the great 360 degree salon view. The Yanmars made the 420 even better by getting rid of any negatives in speed and reliability.

We believe, because of the negative "hybrid" connection to the 420, Lagoon made a few minor changes and called their new 420 a 421. The main difference is the lower bimini, resulting in your head being above the bimini at the helm. The high bimini is one of the great features of the 420 so this change was not an advantage, in our opinion. I don't think you can beat the design of the open salon/cockpit for size and comfort in any comparable size catamaran. We haven't noticed any adverse affects of hull design which prompted Lagoon to make slight changes in the 421.

In the post by POH, I think it is telling that he asked for comments by "actual owners or charters." All of the negative comments we've read about the 420 have come from people who haven't owned a 420 and maybe haven't even been aboard one. We have met many owners and no one has ever had a negative comment about the boat, other than minor problems that any sailboat has.

There isn't a thing we would change about the design. In addition, buying a used 420, new owners get many extras we've seen added. Every 420 we have been on has made changes to the companionway in the owner's hull. We took out the setee and built an office with a desk and bookshelves. Other owners have added storage shelves for clothes or miscellaneous items. All the ones we've seen have four or five solar panels, and some have wind generators. Most owners report that they rarely have to use their gensets when cruising, even while using TV's, washers, watermakers and various appliances. While we do not regret our decision to buy a new boat, there are so many advantages to buying a used 420 with the added features and a new propulsion system. We've never been on a 420 that wasn't well cared for and maintained. When we get together with other owners we compare what we've added to our boats to get new ideas. Of course a few 420's were never hybrids, and they are just as great, only with a more miles on the engines.

If it sounds like we are building up the 420 because we are selling ours, that is not the case. We plan to live aboard Seas the Day for as many more years as we can stay healthy. We have traveled up and down the US east coast, gone across the Gulf to Mobile and taken the GICW to Corpus Christi, and are on our second cruise in the Bahamas. Our freezer holds enough frozen food for six months of cruising, and with all of the storage space, we easily provision for our extended cruise here, only having to buy fresh fruits and vegetables. With three queen size beds and three heads, we are always open to visitors.

We'll be happy to answer any questions about the 420 and hope that eventually prospective buyers won't need to ask what the "problems" are with the 420. It's a great cruising boat and we haven't met a single owner who has regretted the decision to buy one. In addition, in our experience those who sell their 420's do so because of lifestyle or health changes, not because of dissatisfaction with their boat.

The resale value of the Lagoon 420 remains high, and will probably continue so since it is no longer being built.

By the way, POH, whom I quoted at the top of this message, bought a 2009 Lagoon 420 and checking their website, Why knot?, I read this at the end of their "The Boat" page, "Writing this two months in, we are loving our new home."

Jan and Mark
Seas the Day

[Octopus]

Originally Posted by Jan B

We are owners of a Lagoon 420 which we purchased and moved aboard in July, 2008..

... POH, whom I quoted at the top of this message, bought a 2009 Lagoon 420 and checking their website, Why knot?, I read this at the end of their "The Boat" page, "Writing this two months in, we are loving our new home."

Jan and Mark
Seas the Day

We have owned our Hybrid 420 from new in Aug 2007 and agree with everything Jan and Mark say, although we have not converted to diesel propulsion. In our opinion, the 420 is the clear class leader in terms of accommodation, space, comfort and value for money.

We love the hybrid, but it is interesting to read Jan and Mark's comments about improved sailing performance after the conversion, owing to reduced weight. I don't think we we will convert to diesel propulsion until we come to sell the boat. However, having read Jan and Mark's comments, I think we will change to LiFePO4 batteries next time we replace our battery bank, as that will significantly reduce the weight and reduce re-charging times.

Chris and Beth
Octopus
Lagoon 420 Hybrid, Hull 52
Isle of Arran, Scotland

[casablanca]

Originally Posted by Jan B

We are owners of a Lagoon 420 which we purchased and moved aboard in July, 2008. We have been living aboard for 4 1/2 years with our dog Daisy. Seas the Day was a hybrid and we had the conversion done one year ago. At this point almost all of the 420's have been converted. We got the twin 40 hp Yanmars and they are absolutely sufficient. POH said, "I noticed a lot of people who replaced the hybrids have gone with 75 hp," however, to our knowledge very few conversions installed the 75 hp Yanmars and the only advantage seems to be a little more speed but with added fuel consumption. We easily motorsail at 8 kts with our 40 hp engines.

We have always been confused about the often negative remarks about the Lagoon 420, especially on Cruisers Forum. We have never met any 420 owners, and we know quite a few, who don't love their boat. We have also never had a guest aboard who wasn't amazed at the roominess and comfort of the 420.

Yes, there were problems with the hybrid, but there were also advantages. The propulsion system was our only disappointment. The boat was slow, but when the conversion was completed and the heavy hybrid components were removed, our boat went up in the water and our speed increased dramatically, both sailing and motorsailing. When we first crossed from No Name Harbor to Bimini in 2010 with a 420 hybrid, we left at 0400 and arrived in Bimini at 1700. Every sailboat that left after us motorsailed past us that day. This January, our first trip to the Bahamas since the conversion, we raised the anchor at No Name at 0635 and with similar conditions we had that first trip, we were at a dock in Bimini at 1400. This time we passed every sailboat that left before us and no one passed us.

Someone on this forum thought that the 420 got such a bad reputation by some because of the problems with the hybrid system. I suppose that is correct, but anyone who buys a converted 420 is now getting a boat with a new propulsion system in a well designed, comfortable boat with excellent storage and the great 360 degree salon view. The Yanmars made the 420 even better by getting rid of any negatives in speed and reliability.

We believe, because of the negative "hybrid" connection to the 420, Lagoon made a few minor changes and called their new 420 a 421. The main difference is the lower bimini, resulting in your head being above the bimini at the helm. The high bimini is one of the great features of the 420 so this change was not an advantage, in our opinion. I don't think you can beat the design of the open salon/cockpit for size and comfort in any comparable size catamaran. We haven't noticed any adverse affects of hull design which prompted Lagoon to make slight changes in the 421.

In the post by POH, I think it is telling that he asked for comments by "actual owners or charters." All of the negative comments we've read about the 420 have come from people who haven't owned a 420 and maybe haven't even been aboard one. We have met many owners and no one has ever had a negative comment about the boat, other than minor problems that any sailboat has.

There isn't a thing we would change about the design. In addition, buying a used 420, new owners get many extras we've seen added. Every 420 we have been on has made changes to the companionway in the owner's hull. We took out the setee and built an office with a desk and bookshelves. Other owners have added storage shelves for clothes or miscellaneous items. All the ones we've seen have four or five solar panels, and some have wind generators. Most owners report that they rarely have to use their gensets when cruising, even while using TV's, washers, watermakers and various appliances. While we do not regret our decision to buy a new boat, there are so many advantages to buying a used 420 with the added features and a new propulsion system. We've never been on a 420 that wasn't well cared for and maintained. When we get together with other owners we compare what we've added to our boats to get new ideas. Of course a few 420's were never hybrids, and they are just as great, only with a more miles on the engines.

If it sounds like we are building up the 420 because we are selling ours, that is not the case. We plan to live aboard Seas the Day for as many more years as we can stay healthy. We have traveled up and down the US east coast, gone across the Gulf to Mobile and taken the GICW to Corpus Christi, and are on our second cruise in the Bahamas. Our freezer holds enough frozen food for six months of cruising, and with all of the storage space, we easily provision for our extended cruise here, only having to buy fresh fruits and vegetables. With three queen size beds and three heads, we are always open to visitors.

We'll be happy to answer any questions about the 420 and hope that eventually prospective buyers won't need to ask what the "problems" are with the 420. It's a great cruising boat and we haven't met a single owner who has regretted the decision to buy one. In addition, in our experience those who sell their 420's do so because of lifestyle or health changes, not because of dissatisfaction with their boat.

The resale value of the Lagoon 420 remains high, and will probably continue so since it is no longer being built.

By the way, POH, whom I quoted at the top of this message, bought a 2009 Lagoon 420 and checking their website, Why knot?, I read this at the end of their "The Boat" page, "Writing this two months in, we are loving our new home."

Jan and Mark
Seas the Day

We have a 40hp diesel 420 and endorse everything Jan B says. Great boat. Wouldn't change anything. Wouldn't swap it for another Lagoon model.

Bob
Casablanca

[Fearnow]

I purchase a 2008 420 and will be moving on board with my wife in March. Really excited and would go now, but still in charter. Just started reading the threads. Lot's of answers.
Hope to see some of you in the Caribbean next year!

[Jmurrayj]

New to the thread. Looks like my wife an I will be moving on board l420 #92. We will name her shallow up. Look forward to learning from other owners. First question. Folding props. Worth it or not. We should close on boat by the end of July

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Jmurrayj

New to the thread. Looks like my wife an I will be moving on board l420 #92. We will name her shallow up. Look forward to learning from other owners. First question. Folding props. Worth it or not. We should close on boat by the end of July

Congratulations.

I have been leaning toward a L420 but think they are out of range. Looking at 380s instead.

[Fearnow]

Congrats! Just spent a week in Gwada on my 420. Will move onboard, full time in March. Please stay in touch. Really love the boat. Sailed the windward side of island with 10' swell on the aft and 25-28 knt wind, and she plugged along at 7.5 knts. Really love the boat.

[casablanca]

Congratulations. We love our Lagoon 420 # 86

As far as props are concerned, we have used 2 blade fixed (standard lagoon fit) as well as 3 blade folding. Folding props definitely make a difference but are expensive and require maintenance. In our case the boat came with folding props so we didn't have to make a cost/benefit decision.

Boat is quite OK with 2 blade fixed, so I wouldn't see folding props as a must have. But if cost is not a controlling factor, and you are prepared to do some regular maintenance then go for the folding props. Hard to assess the benefits but I'm fairly confident that we get an extra 0.5 to 1.0 knot approx both sailing and motoring (on average).

I have folding props now and propose to stick with them. The fixed blades are now spares.

Bob
Casablanca L420

[casablanca]

I guess I should have said "J'adore mon Lagoon quatre cent vingt?"

Bob

[Jmurrayj]

Thanks for the prop info. I am trading in my Catalina 42. I have a folding prop that gained me a knot of motoring and sailing. This meant that I could motor at 7 knots at approx 22-24 hundred rpms. It also allowed me to sail a little faster than 50% of apparent wind on a tight reach. I just want my new L-420 to match or exceed that performance

[casablanca]

Jmurrayj,


I don't know anything about Catalina 42 performance, but the 420 is not noted for its speed. But I find the performance quite adequate. With folding props and a clean bottom we do 7.5 kts on 2100 RPM with 40HP Yanmars, and I would say that we would do half wind speed on a reach although I haven't made a point of noting the numbers. Lots of variables affect day to day sailing, and we are cruisers, not racers. But I saw 10.7 on the GPS today on a reach with the main and Gennaker up in 18kts, although that's more wind than I like with the Gennaker. The boat does go when it wants to.

Most cats don't point well so you might be disappointed with upwind performance compared to the Catalina. As they say "gentlemen don't sail to windward" and we usually don't bother.

As an overall package, the 420 delivers good performance and handling, with excellent comfort and space. Can't beat that.

Bob
Casablanca L420

[Jmurrayj]

Casablanca thank you again for info. I agree with you I am not racing. I keep the boat in sanibel ( sw florida) and i have to make a long leg to key west anytime i want to go cruising (110 naut miles). As long as i maintain the level of performance you are seeing then I can avoid over nights which makes my wife very happy which of course makes me happy. 7.5 at 2100 gives me a bench mark to compare my 2 blade fixed prop performace against. Which brand folding prop due you have?