440: Lagoon 440 Performance ?

[D&D]

Originally Posted by dirkdig

We just did 200 miles from Victoria to Tasmainia in 22 hours, i am happy with the speed, given i spent the last 10 hours trying to slow her down!

Delighted to hear you're cruising the beautiful waters of Tassie...and the perfect time of year for it!!

We're a bit out of synch though as we penciled in a return to Tassie for this time next year. Ah well, we'll no doubt cross paths sometime soon, somewhere!

In the meantime, enjoy!!

[dirkdig]

Will do Don, we are in Launceston for 2 days and then will cruise the east coast to Hobart.
Then make our way home via Flinders island weather dependant or just shoot back to Vic if the winds suit.

[impi]

Ok ... sailed a number of passages with a number of yachts now ... we have yet to feel 'slow' on ANY passage ... top speed 21 knots SOG so far and regularly at 17 knots, but for us its not about 'the race' ... its about the comfort. Impi has covered more than half the globe now (Cape Town to the USA and now in Raiatea in the Pacific) and has really surprised a number of serious sailors out there! We seriously are VERY happy owners!

[dirkdig]

No one that we have sailed with or had on board has come away saying they are slow either, on passages we leave a whole lot of mono's behind, very new ones too.
We leave several cats behind too.
Our new top speed is now 19.9 knots!
20 would have been nice.

[DavefromNZ]

My Lagoon 450 new top speed 23kts in a tidal rip in Cook Strait.

New top wind speed sailing 64kts, with 55 kts sustained. A couple of days ago at Castle Point, NZ, unforecast until 6 hours after it hit us.

Here is a video of us hanging off 80m of chain at anchor (25kg Sea Blade for those who like to argue about the best anchors :-)

http://youtu.be/d2sw2Hjku2E

[2Wind]

Uncomfotably close to land, down wind!
Impressive video....

[dirkdig]

Thanks for the video,
Looking at a new tender for ours, is the highfield any good on yous?

[DavefromNZ]

We were closer to the rocks earlier (600m) but moved so if the chain let go we would miss them. The anchor held very well but had it's own drift rate of about 1m every 30-60 minutes.

Another video: Castle Point, NZ, 50-60 Kts anchored on Lagoon 450, more - YouTube

We love the Highfield dinghy. I have had 9 easily in it and could fit another 3 (yes only rated for 6 but very stable). Plains with 4 not to big adults with our honda 20.

[gspeak]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

We were closer to the rocks earlier (600m) but moved so if the chain let go we would miss them. The anchor held very well but had it's own drift rate of about 1m every 30-60 minutes.

Another video: Castle Point, NZ, 50-60 Kts anchored on Lagoon 450, more - YouTube

We love the Highfield dinghy. I have had 9 easily in it and could fit another 3 (yes only rated for 6 but very stable). Plains with 4 not to big adults with our honda 20.

Impressive video & anchor performance. How do you attach your bridle to the chain rode? I'm asking as I am trying to resolve how I will do it in a decent blow.

Dave

[DavefromNZ]

I tried a lot of connections from the bridle to the chain; hooks, mantus, but the only thing that works and fits my track and bow roller is a simple big stainless shackle. I have one more video that shows the tension on the chain. I will put it on Youtube now and post the link. (here is the link http://youtu.be/WWT5IiTJ7Ac, uploading now. Sorry about the quality I was getting knocked about a bit)

As we anchored the hard part was keeping the L450 pointing in to wind as we dropped the main (treble reefed). I had full forward and full reverse a lot of the time otherwise the bow dropped away. So I dropped the anchor to control it a bit better. The yacht swung wildly left and right but as soon as we had the bridle on it was very stable in to wind.

[TOT]

Saw the three videos on YouTube Dave, looks like a rough patch of Kiwi water.

How did the 450 hold up?

Cheers

[DavefromNZ]

Sailing in 50-60kts was not really a problem, and it was just fortunate we were only a few miles of the coast so the waves had only got up to maybe 2m but were steep. With treble reefed main we 'forereached' very comfortably and made about 4kts. We had the engines running so we would not ever lose control. We had to turn 45deg downwind for a while as we got too close to uncharted coast.

We have trialed a lot of options to heave-to on the L450 and we believe this to be the best option:

Magique settled about 30 to 45 degrees to the wind:
• No jib
• Main treble reefed
• Traveller fully down to leeward
• Main sheet fully in but not too tight
• Helm fully to windward

Anchoring was the biggest problem because until the bridal was on the L450 bow would very quickly be pushed off the wind and downwind.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

We have trialed a lot of options to heave-to on the L450...

FWIW, the L440 heaves to quite easily as follows:

• tripe-reefed main and ~30% headsail;
• traveler mid-ships -- This can be tweaked to windward when all's set -- and mainsheet set for close hauled;
• tack (say to starboard) but do NOT tack the headsail; and
• when she comes about so that the main is setting and the headsail is back winded, put the helm back (to port in this example) all the way, i.e. as if you are trying to reverse the tack, and lock the helm in that position.

Our experience suggests she will then sit quite comfortably...and indefinitely...pointing ~20-30degrees into the wind on the starboard tack and riding gently up and over the waves. There will be some (say 1-2kn) of forward way such that you may want to consider which tack you want to end up on, especially if you're thinking of remaining heave-to for a long spell.

[DavefromNZ]

On the L450 we tried with a small amount of jib backed. However that just pushed us to sit closer to 90 degrees to the wind. With only main and traveller to leeward and the helm to windward it did not appear to get enough inertia to tack, and the main never flapped. We did not seem to go up or downing but maybe 1-2 knots crosswind.

[Windward2c]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Top speed is way over-rated for cruising boats. What's much more important is light-air performance, especially if you're in the middle latitudes and can't count on trade winds. Pointing ability is important, if your destination isn't downwind or a reach. For that reason (referring back to the original post) the Catana (with dagger-boards) will be a much better choice if you prefer to sail.

Light air performance and pointing ability is often the difference between motoring and sailing. Don't forget that cruising chute too.

Has anyone considered (and why doesnt Lagoon offer) a daggerboard or centerboard option/modification like Catana. Lagoon is clearly the best choice for comfort cruising and while it may never become the fastest clearly many buyers are still interested in improved performance.