440: Lagoon 440 Weight, Height, Flybridge

[David_Old_Jersey]

Whilst I am posting (and as we seem to have already drifted away from Lagoon flybridge height ), I think it fair to mention that lack of boat speed (especially in light air) is something that I am very conscious of on my Seadog - especially given the strong tidal streams and big tidal ranges we have around here - and therefore I do appreciate that lack of speed (from having an undercanvassed heavy old bugger of a boat!) can be as much of a problem "safety wise" as being a very light boat in very bad weather.

But then again that is what the Perkins is for

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by BambooSailor

They knew weather system was coming, but forecast was for 35-40 kts, which skipper was confortable to handle. They were not trying to avoid it or run from it. Once the system hit it was 60+kts.

I have to humbly admit my ignorance here, since I have not done my planned comprehensive ocean yachtmaster yet - so please help me out here... (I also acknowlegde this thread has grown organically!)

I was under the impression specialized weather forecasts for cruisers are fairly accurate - if not - then what is the margin of error? Shouldn't this skipper have thought of this? Could he have "seen" that there could be a possibility of error - maybe by checking sinoptic charts? I mean if all skippers regularly "trust" a specific managable forecast and it turns out to be much worse - surely that will lead to a lot of problems.

What is the Standard Operating Procedure for a skipper in interpreting or questioning a specific forecast?

Hope my question makes sense. Thanks all, I appreciate all the posts here.

[fhrussell]

I have the same question... What is the margin of error if the forcast was for 35-40 kts.?

Hey Etienne, as my grade school teachers used to say, "That ignorant question you have is the same one 6 other people in the class are asking, but are afraid to ask."

[DtM]

As a result of the events of the Sydney to Hobart dramas of a few years ago the BOM here now note on all forecasts that the wind strength could be 40 % more than that which is in the forecast. That makes the 40 knots top forecast into 56 knots.

[DtM]

.....and that maximum waves forecast could be twice the forecast height.

Sorry, BOM = Bureau of Meteorology

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by fhrussell

I have the same question... What is the margin of error if the forcast was for 35-40 kts.?

Hey Etienne, as my grade school teachers used to say, "That ignorant question you have is the same one 6 other people in the class are asking, but are afraid to ask."

There are others here far more quailified than me to answer your question. And many of them know technical stuff and words and even have facts to support them.

But I don't usually let things like this prevent me from giving my opinion


When it comes to weather forecasts I use them as a Guide not as a certainty and allow for the possibility that they could be wrong - by how much? Off the top of my head I would say by 1 "Force", but with proviso that it could be a couple. or more. I was once going accross Biscay (3 day passage), we motored for most of 2 days cos of zero wind. 3rd day we had a gale. Probably an 8. felt like a 12 The zero wind was not predicted exactly, nor was later the "hooley", although we knew from the forecast that the weather was building. (a bit more wind at the start and a bit less at the end would have been perfect).

My (unscientific!) understanding is that a Weather Forecast from the Met Office can still be perfectly "correct", even if the weather you encounter locally is not identical to the forecast as their will always be local variations and changes that cannot be predicted to a micro level of accuracy and specific location. And the worse the weather the more scope for things to change at short notice?? (or is that just my pessimism?!!)

Living on a small island the weather seems to be harder to predict, perhaps nowadays not so much what is coming - but when it is arriving.

I guess what I also pay greater attention to is whether the weather is rising or falling.

But then again when at home I quite often look out the window and base my decision on whether it is sunny or looks like it might rain. (but don't tell anyone ).

[schoonerdog]

I would just comment that I spoke to the delivery captains of the lagoons after the multihull demo days here in Annapolis, and they hated the raised bridgedeck. The motion in rough seas was more pronounced and they didn't like the fact that they were up outside of the lifelines being thrown around and not able to be seen by people below if something should happen or even easily communicate with them. It is around 7000 lbs heavier than most boats her size and that will slow it down, but speed isn't everything. Were I to sail one, I'd try to lessen the risks through an intercom system, a frequent checkin schedule, and always being tethered regardless of conditions. Their market research was what was needed to make sailing better for charter companies, and getting the ropes out of the way of the passangers and creating more space was probably top of the list.

[ess105]

The Lagoon 440 is an awesome boat for cruising the Islands. I spent a week on one last year and we had a fabulous time. The raised bridgedeck is an excellent place for crew to hang out and chat while getting on with sailing the boat.

I also agree with the points above regarding passage making. I have met 440 owners who are very happy with the boat as it fits their needs. As I intend to make a number of passages, I ended up looking beyond this particular boat.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by ess105

The Lagoon 440 is an awesome boat for cruising the Islands. I spent a week on one last year and we had a fabulous time. The raised bridgedeck is an excellent place for crew to hang out and chat while getting on with sailing the boat.

I also agree with the points above regarding passage making. I have met 440 owners who are very happy with the boat as it fits their needs. As I intend to make a number of passages, I ended up looking beyond this particular boat.

Which was certainly part of my argument a long way back.

Another part of my argument was that it was an insane amount of money for a boat that can "only sail around the Island's."

Having a look for another breed of cat is a wise move indeed ess 105.

Maybe one of those nice Australian cat's

Good luck with the search.

Dave

[Factor]

Where to start.

There are a few laws of physics which translate into boat design when it comes to sailing multis, particularly cats:

1. Keep the weight as much as possible out of the first and last third of the boat.

1(a) Keep it as light as possible

2. Keep the weight low as possible

3. Keep the bridgedeck clearance hish as possible

4. Keep the sails as close to the deck as possible

5. Reduce windage through design

The lagoon isnt a bad boat - but I prefer to describe it to people as a wide mono rather than a multi, thats not meant as an insult just a better description.

Also the issue of weight genrally is important cause of the multiply factor - the boat gets heavy so you put in bigger motors which need more fuel which means the boat gets heavy etc etc. A lighter boat can use smaller motors less fuel and so on.

If you must have air con and gen sets etc, then I think those pesky laws of physics mean that you are looking at a 14 mettre boat minimum to have any chance of reasonable performance, and thats if you dont have extreme windage designs.

[Traveler]

Ok, here is my first post on this board. So I will take the spanking in jest.

The argument about the bridge deck being bad for Cruising just does not hold water for me.

Here again we humand are trying ti use one tool to do many jobs. ie; Home, transportation-local; Transportation-ocean going, party palace, etc.

You have to think how much time you are on the boat and how much time is givin to each need. So the boat isent perfect for crossings! But how much time do we actually spend making crossings as apposed to sitting at anchor enjoying some nice local. Or coastal hopping along whatever body of water-de-jour.

I like the bridge deck. I like the visability it gives me, especially around coral heads, etc.

IMHO -- He, He, He I always think this stands for I'm a ho!

[sail4evr]

while a self serving article, they are entitled to an opinion as well. Being a happy owner of a Lagoon 440 I tend to agree with them.

Newswire / Press Release: Fact from Fiction - Catamaran Myths Busted - Boat/Yacht/Sailboat | NewswireToday

[Badgerman]

The boat to get is not the 440 but the 420 hybrid........then after a week on it in moderate seas you WANT to capsize to end the pain.

[sail4evr]

verb - badger
1 - Annoy persistently
synonyms: bug, harass, pester
but I guess you already know what badger means - your namesake

[Twixter]

The fly bridge was a main reason my husband and I went with the Lagoon 440. We have cruised over 5K miles in and around the Med. and spend probably 90% time on the fly bridge. We didn't buy it for speed, but for comfort and fun as we live on it full time.

You just have to find the boat that works for you and your crew