450: Main Halyard / Mast head pin

[Jimmy30379]

Hello,

I purchased my 2016 Lagoon 450F in Peru and while it was being sailed to California, the main halyard broke. The crew rigged (badly in my opinion) a halyard to get the vessel to California.

They put a shackle in one of the holes (port side that shares the slot with the back stay. (photo 1 below, the black line is the main halyard, the white line is the back stay)

Photos 2, 3 and 4, show the back view, as well as the port and starboard view of the mast head.

I never saw the way the halyard was rigged in Peru and I can't locate any photos of a properly rigged halyard online or youtube, etc.

I am assuming that there should be a pin that fits through all three metal pieces of mast head and the eye of the main halyard, and that the halyard should be on the starboard side, where the halyard goes down the interior of the mast, and not on the port side where the back stay goes down the interior of the mast.

So my questions are:
is my assumption correct about how the main halyard should be rigged?
Is there suppose to be a pin that goes through all three metal plates?
If that is the case, Does anyone know where I can get the pin? (I checked the sparepartsbeneteau website and there is nothing listed for this pin)
If a pin is intended to be used, should it go through the lower hole (where the shackle is currently on the port side of photo 4) or should it go through the hole that is above and aft of the lower hole? The lower hole shows wear and tear, so I assume the pin use to be there, but the upper hole seems like it would be stronger, just by the shear fact that there is more metal around the hole...

Any insight you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Again, please excuse my ignorance when it come to this vessel, I have only owned her for 3 weeks and I am still learning.

Thanks,
Jimmy

[arsenelupiga]

that looks same as mine. No extra pin. 400 is just smaller version of 450, pretty much.

See that rope is quite twisted. It is likely twist destroyed it. It can twist so one cant pull sail down or up, and then use real force, things happen.

You need to think how to manage twist long term. We fixed the block so it does not rotate and use soft shackle to attach sail to the block. Works perfect ever since.

[tenchiki]

It is very easy to get twist into a line that is put around a winch, up to one twist per wrap. (It happens for jib sheets and main sheets, in addition to halyards and other lines). The best prevention is to learn a special way to coil the tail -- start with reverse-coil the same number of loops as turns on the winch (the self-tailer counts as a turn on the winch), followed by normal figure-8 coils. Either start with a fully un-twisted line, or if it is not too badly twisted, you can just put more reverse loops, and it will slowly un-twist over time.


The next time I am at the boat, I will try to make a video of it.

[Jimmy30379]

Yes, the twist in the halyard has been a pain and I am sure that is the reason the line broke in the first place. Unfortunately, the boat has been sailed for the last few years with a freely rotating, twisting block attached to the head of the sail. The local captain in Peru warned me about it when I bought the boat, as they always took great care not to let the halyard twist while raising the main sail.
The delivery crew either didn't know or didn't care...

I have ordered the new halyard and will be installing a non-rotating block, to avoid this issue in the future.

I still can not understand why the halyard would be tied into the mast head on the same side as the topping lift / back stay line. It seems like you are asking for trouble with the two line rubbing together.

Also, if you are intended to put a shackle on the mast head, why would the holes go through all three plates?

PS: tenchiki, looking forward to seeing that video!

[meirriba]

The two lines should not be on the same shackle and on our L400/2011 there is a pin through the holes. One side for the halyard and second slot for the topping lift.
I do not know where to source the pin but you may improvise.
My opinion is that the halyard parted because of twist and not the masthead connection.
Happened to me twice!
The remedy (as already suggested in above post) us to fix the swivel of the block on sailhead and stop its free rotation. It may seem counterintuitive...but it helps.

[Moontide]

It should be attached on the opposite side. This allows a better lead to the block from both the fixed and moving end. If in the hole on the same side it would be "squeezing" the block more. As long as the topping lift (not backstay) and the halyard are not chaffing on each other all is good.


Might be able to save the cost of a new block. Most blocks have a way to stop the spinning. Often a small allen wrench bolt that pushes on a flat spot on the pin.

On my 470 there is a pin going through the 3 holes, but the metal in each piece is not as thick.


Bill

[Moontide]

P.S. I just throw the halyard overboard and trial for a minute to get the twists out. Just need to do early enough so it drys before I drop the main. Of course could also do it the hard way by flipping the twists out. Like we do with jib sheets on race boats.



Bill

[juanmauri]

My suggestion would be:

1. A high load swivel block
2. Halyard should point backs it comes to through the block and then up to the farthest point you can attach the halyard.
3. Set the halyard with a sailmakers thimble.
4. Long bury / high load splice.

Based on your images it seems that the splice failed. Either the halyard was hoisted beyond its max, or the local rigger did a regular splice, not a high load one).

It is rare that a halyard will twist while being in use. Is the way we coil them that twist them.

[wingssail]

Personally I would prefer to see an eye splice and thimble on the end of the halyard and attached with pin through the thimble and all three plates with cotter pins on the ends of the pin. Pick either side to hang the halyard. No shackle is needed. You can measure the diameter of the hole and the length required for the pin, and usually you can find a pin the right dimensions at a good chandlery.

Sometimes you can find a pin with a head on one end and threads on the other on which an aircraft nut (with nylon to prevent unscrewing) can be placed to keep the main pin from falling out. Perhaps a good stainless bolt would even serve.

At worst case you can get a machine shop to make one for you at little expense.

As for the block swiveling and contributing to twists in the 2:1 halyard. You might not need to replace the block. On many blocks, even ones without a means of locking the swivel, you can run some small stuff lashing line around several times above and below the swivel portion, so that swiveling is not possible.

[roverhi]

It looks like the halyard is chafing on the side plate of the masthead possibly because the block is too large. A smaller diameter block would lessen the angle the line enters the masthead which would help but still not eliminate chafe. A non swivel block that aligned parallel (fore/aft) to the mast might also solve the chafe issues if the block would maintain that orientation under load.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by roverhi

It looks like the halyard is chafing on the side plate of the masthead possibly because the block is too large. A smaller diameter block would lessen the angle the line enters the masthead which would help but still not eliminate chafe. A non swivel block that aligned parallel (fore/aft) to the mast might also solve the chafe issues if the block would maintain that orientation under load.

Sometimes these blocks are built into the headboard of the sail, and therefore unable to swivel independently, however the fore and aft orientation is only maintained when the sail is on the centerline. As soon as the sail is eased out the headboard and the block are no longer aligned fore and aft. Usually, however, that is not happening when the sail is being hoisted or dropped.

I think you could fashion some kind of restriction on the block so it stays aligned with the headboard.

Placing the attachment as far apart from the halyard sheave as possible will reduce the angle and maybe reduce the wear on the line, so, as suggested by juanmauri, use the hole higher and farther aft for the pin and the attachment of the end of the halyard.

[slug]

Headboard shackle 2-1

[Bean Counter]

On the 450 if your main halyard is fed from the port side, the halyard should be attached to the port side of the mast top and fed through the mast top port pulley. If you get a long enough shackle it should go through the upper hole, (the lower hole does not have as far to wear out). The topping lift would normally be on the starboard side and go over the starboard pulley in the mast top . Whilst you are at it check the wear of the topping lift shackle on the boom connection. Some folks have moved their halyards around down below and not made the adjustment at the top.


on further inspection your main halyard is exiting the starboard top side so the shackle should be attached to the starboard side, hopefully your halyard exits the mast base on starboard as well. For line twist lock the block so it can not twist. When hoisting main make sure the halyard and topping lift do not cross, in your case the sail should be hoisted so battens fall to starboard of the topping lift or else the two lines will get chafe

.

[Jimmy30379]

You people are awesome!!!

Thank you for the exceptionally helpful feedback!!!

I truly appreciate it.

All the best,
Jimmy

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by wingssail

...

As for the block swiveling and contributing to twists in the 2:1 halyard. You might not need to replace the block. On many blocks, even ones without a means of locking the swivel, you can run some small stuff lashing line around several times above and below the swivel portion, so that swiveling is not possible.

The blocks on the sailhead, as supplied by Lagoon, have the option to stop swiveling. Usually it with a smal Allen (hex) key.