450: Purchasing and Commissioning

[Catopia]

Salon Windows: is anyone having issues with extremely squeaky noise from their L450 salon windows when underway or at anchor?

[roetter]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

Another request for help / advice please;

I think that our single line reefing was set up wrong. The line exits the boom at the front up the luff then through the slides to the opposite side of the luff through just a single shackle on the sail, no block, nothing to reduce the friction then back to the other side of the luff and down to a block at the base of the mast and to a jammer.

Overall lots of friction that makes it hard to reef. Any other Lagoon owners please let me know your setup?

Thanks, Dave

When we chartered a L450 last year, it had blocks on all the turning points on the luff and the leech for #1 and #2 reefs. We broke one block on reefing down, probably by tightening to hard with is easy to do when you can not see how far you have gone. The lazy bag obstructs the view.

Our 2012 L450 has the Antal Low Friction Annapolis Performance Sailing (APS) - Low Friction Rings by Antalrings instead of the blocks. It would be hard to break those.

The luff lines on ours do not cross over through the slides to the other side. They come down the same side they are going up.

[roetter]

Our solar panel experience

We are cruising the Med, currently in the Cyclades. Our L450 has not been plugged into shore power since May - 3 months. We have a small Honda portable generator, but that has no been used either. In power hungry equipment that we use on a regular basis we have:
- Small portable ice maker - almost every day Products - Dometic
- Cappuccino maker - every day
- Toaster - every day
- Hot water kettle - most days
- Washing machine - twice a week
- Newport 400 water maker - 10 - 15 hours per week

Most days we have been motoring, so that fills the batteries. However for the last 4 days we have been storm bound. Luckily the storm is from the north, so the panels do not get shaded. We have blue sky but with a significant amount of haze.

Our solar production is most days just shy of 300 Ah. We have seen up to 400 Ah, but that was in cooler climates. It looks like the high temperatures here (30+) significantly reduces efficiency.

Every afternoon our Victron BM shows 100% SOC for the batteries.

[DavefromNZ]

Hi Roetter,

Thank you for the info. I like the look of the Antal and will get some.

Re the electrics I was surprised that the L450 did not come with a DC amps monitor that totals the charge and discharge to show amps remaining. I just fitted this model DC Systems Monitor and that required a new additional shunt. The Lagoon installed system only shows the discharge.

When we fitted it I noticed we had 6 x 120Ah batteries. However all the documents and agreements showed we paid for 6 x 140Ah batteries. Anyone else shortchanged? We are taking it up with Lagoon.

Dave

[DavefromNZ]

With regard to the batteries, we ordered the 3 extra 140Ah batteries. We then also ordered them as gel batteries. I don't recall and can't find any description of the Ah of the gel batteries and so Lagoon then provide 120Ah (what is to stop them providing 50Ah batteries?). I wouldn't have a problem with this if we were informed and so could make an informed purchase decision.

Lagoon brushed us off in an email saying it was all correct, they also say the Stack Pack (made by Incidence Sails) is fine. My recommendation to any new purchaser is do NOT buy it. Within the first week the first tie ripped out. A second tie has ripped out, other threads are ripping loose and the stitch work is poor. Lagoon take no responsibility for it.

[dirkdig]

Typical Lagoon attitude, a real shame they treat buyers this way!

[MIRELOS]

My FP has Incidence sails and they are well made, proved their worth crossing the Atlantic, as for the stack pack.....yeah.....not holding up that well.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

wouldn't have a problem with this if we were informed...Lagoon brushed us off in an email...Lagoon take no responsibility

What dirkdig -- Hi Peter! -- said.

Dave, you should consider yourself flattered you actually received an email from Lagoon! The "no responsibility" bit is, however, absolutely consistent with their form elsewhere, including (very much so) with us.

...and some people say the frogs are arrogant...go figure!

[impi]

Originally Posted by roetter

When we chartered a L450 last year, it had blocks on all the turning points on the luff and the leech for #1 and #2 reefs. We broke one block on reefing down, probably by tightening to hard with is easy to do when you can not see how far you have gone. The lazy bag obstructs the view.

Our 2012 L450 has the Antal Low Friction Annapolis Performance Sailing (APS) - Low Friction Rings by Antalrings instead of the blocks. It would be hard to break those.

The luff lines on ours do not cross over through the slides to the other side. They come down the same side they are going up.

We have the 440 not the 450 but I think the reefing is similar style. We have a mark on the sail and a mark on the boom. When the sail is being reefed we align the marks which makes sure the blocks are just above the boom! Works a charm!

[impi]

Originally Posted by D&D

What dirkdig -- Hi Peter! -- said.

Dave, you should consider yourself flattered you actually received an email from Lagoon! The "no responsibility" bit is, however, absolutely consistent with their form elsewhere, including (very much so) with us.

...and some people say the frogs are arrogant...go figure!

Yes ... absolutely amazing stuff! Wouldn't bother EVER trying to contact Lagoon once they have your money!

[DavefromNZ]

With the Stack Pack we paid for Doyles to do the following:
- strengthen all the stress areas where stitches pulling out
- have it attached correctly at the stern end as it always rode forward
- put drainage panels in as it fills with water and does not empty
- split the forward cover flap into two parts as it could not easily be used with the flat top main as the halyard always needs to be about 60cm out from the mast when lowered
- we have the very big bimini so we had to shift the 2nd to aft lazy jacks and panel ties aft as we could not reach them otherwise.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by MIRELOS

My FP has Incidence sails and they are well made, proved their worth crossing the Atlantic

Have to agree there. We expected our Incidence sails would be rags by the time they reached Sydney with 14000nm on them (from Italy, via the Panama Canal, and including both the Med and the Tasman seas in winter) and an absolute heap of heavy UV exposure, but in fact they held up very well, even producing some begrudging respect from OZ sailmakers. Some wear repairs were needed, of course, and they were a long way from pretty, but they continued to serve us well with 18000nm on them.

That said, some moron-- That'd be Yours Truly -- tore the leach on the main with improper use of the power winch so the main is now being replaced. The sailmaker tried to make us feel better by pointing out the sails were extremely thin and showing LOTS of wear, but somehow Yours Truly still feels like a moron.

[impi]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

With the Stack Pack we paid for Doyles to do the following:
- strengthen all the stress areas where stitches pulling out
- have it attached correctly at the stern end as it always rode forward
- put drainage panels in as it fills with water and does not empty
- split the forward cover flap into two parts as it could not easily be used with the flat top main as the halyard always needs to be about 60cm out from the mast when lowered
- we have the very big bimini so we had to shift the 2nd to aft lazy jacks and panel ties aft as we could not reach them otherwise.

Interesting they still have the same issues! We removed ours and had a new one made by Quantum Sail makers. Apart from the 'plastic zip' which broke on one occasion, we never had another problem!

[D&D]

Originally Posted by impi

We have a mark on the sail and a mark on the boom. When the sail is being reefed we align the marks which makes sure the blocks are just above the boom! Works a charm!

Not sure we're following this...unless you mean a mark on the sail and a mark on the mast? We're probably missing something here, but your system sounds attractively simple...and it is an annoying process for us to check and re-check to ensure those reefing blocks are clear of the boom. Could you possibly post a pic?

[impi]

Originally Posted by D&D

Not sure we're following this...unless you mean a mark on the sail and a mark on the mast? We're probably missing something here, but your system sounds attractively simple...and it is an annoying process for us to check and re-check to ensure those reefing blocks are clear of the boom. Could you possibly post a pic?

Yeah ... those drinks WERE good last night ... sorry about that ... should be on the mast. Interestingly enough, only one mark does the trick as the reef seems to come down equally spaced ... on my cat it does anyway. Sure I will take a pic ... sail is still wrapped since Isaac passed but as soon as I hoist it I will post it. Mark on the mast is about 3.5 m up from the mast step and I had Quantum put a 'black line' in the sail. When the mark on the mast and the mark on the sail align, then I know the reef blocks are about 50mm clear of the boom. When we were sailing at night I put a reflective dot (sticker) on sail and mast which have since come off but that also worked great.

I got tired of constantly marking the lines at the cleat jammers