12 volt series motor or permanent magnet?

[gjordan]

I asked the question on the anchor thread and didnt get an answer, so here goes. I have an early 12 volt Ideal windlass. I understand (maybe I am wrong) that there is a difference in the reversing solenoid for a series wound motor or a permanent magnet motor. I emailed Ideal and they could not tell me what their older motors are. Is there a visual way to tell the difference or some other way to identify? Thanks in advance. Grant.

[mikeod]

I have an older horizontal ideal and it is not permanent magnet. It has 2 terminals on the motor one for forward and one for reverse. I dont think u can reverse polarity to reverse direction.

[gjordan]

Thanks, the reason I asked is that Maxwell sells what they call " Dual direction/Reversing solenoid " that are a different part number for series wound or permanent magnet motors. With my limited knowledge , I cant see the need for a different solenoid, other than possibly higher current demand on one type of motor over the other, or possibly higher starting current. I emailed Ideal and they said they didnt know which type of motor it would be. When Scheafer bought out Ideal, they must have canned all the old timers that knew anything. And yes, I understand that the two lugs are for forward or reverse and the ground goes to the case. Great old windlasses. Grant.

[osprey877]

I have a similar issue with my Lofran’s windlass. It is currently wired with up only and manual down. There are two wires to the windlass and I have been trying to figure out if I can simply reverse their polarity to reverse the windlass so I can have power both up and down. As I understand it, permanent magnet or universal motors as they are also called, can be reversed simply by reversing polarity. You can tell if you have this type of motor (unlikely from what I have read) by putting a piece of iron or mild steel to the end of the armature and see if there is any magnetic attraction when the motor is not running.
If not, then their will be a separate field winding that sends a small current to the stator ring to create the necessary initial magnetic field to start the motor. It can be wired either in series or parallel to the main armature winding. If in series, then reversing the polarity of the wires won’t reverse the motor and could damage it. It can only be reversed by rewiring the field coil so that it is parrelel to the armature and then using a third wire that reverses the current to the field coil only. Most reversing windlasses have three, not two, witres to them for this reason.
Or at least that is what I think I have learned so far😬

[gjordan]

Well, I learned a little bit more (I think i did). I checked with Maxwell and saw the type of reverser that came with my project. It shows it as for a series wound motor, so I think I am good to go with it. It is interesting that it is rated for 140 amp and 560 amp/5 seconds. It doesnt use the term continuous for the 140 amp, but that seems to be what it means. The web site showed a reverser (dual direction solenoid) for a permanent magnet motor but didnt give its ratings. It was smaller and lower priced so I am guessing that the permanent magnet motors have a lower starting current. I wish someone with more knowledge would chime in and give us a better idea. Defender sells Maxwell Dual Direction Solenoids for about half of what ideal wants. I dont know anything at all about the LoFrans but maybe they have a better web site than Maxwell. The wiring diagrams that are shown on the Ideal/Schaefer site are very good. I am not sure if this helps anybody or not. ____Grant.