220v to 110v?

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

5 kVA Single Phase 230V 50Hz to 110V 60Hz Converter | GoHz.com

will do the job.

Have you installed this unit or know of anyone that has. They seem very well priced? We are looking at the 10KVA model.

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

Have you installed this unit or know of anyone that has. They seem very well priced? We are looking at the 10KVA model.

No I was also tipped when i was looking for a solution but at the end i rewired. Comes from my always help full archive.

Originally Posted by chris95040

Yep- you are right.


Hey I'm sure everyone already knows this but the reason wiring may have to change if redoing the whole boat for 120V is because to get a given amount of power (watts) at 120V takes twice as much current as at 240V. The wiring has to therefore be sized up to handle that additional current. This can be pretty non intuitive to folks unfamiliar with this stuff. ("why do i need bigger wire for lower voltage?")

In the US a typical household circuit is 15 or 20 amps. Whats typical everywhere else?

In The Netherlands (240v@50Hz) the Main Breaker is rated 25A slow and the individual circuits breakers are rated between 10A and 16A fast.

[DotDun]

Regardless of the size of wiring originally installed, it's a good bet the installed breaker is the right size for the wire.

Hence, if it's a 10a breaker, it'll deliver 1200Va @ 120V, if it's a 16a breaker, it'll deliver 1920Va @ 120V. No need to change the wire if you can live with the power each will deliver.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

For me all these options are like repairing your boat with duck tape.

As at #2. your world must be more smaller than mine, only in Rio de Janeiro (110v 60Hz) live more people than in The Netherlands.

Well, I beg to disagree. Simply rewiring and converting the boat to 110v power, besides being expensive, then leaves you with the opposite problem when cruising most of the world (yes, more than 80% of world population uses 230v or 220v 50hz mains power; 110v shore power is really only North America, part of the Caribbean, Caribbean parts of Central & South America, Japan, and Taiwan). It's ok if you are pretty sure you won't leave 110v waters.

For real world cruisers who need to be able to use all types of shore power, on the contrary, setting up the boat for 230/50 power with a large inverter, and adding a separate 110v shore power inlet with charger is really the optimum solution, even without considering cost. This is technically the same solution as using a dedicated voltage/frequency converter, which rectifies the AC power and then inverts it to the desired type. But you can use your big boat inverter, which is also used when you're on battery power, so you save the weight and bulk of duplicating that function in the voltage/frequency convertor like what you proposed.

Some cruisers can use the isolation transformer approach with perfect results -- it depends on the AC equipment on board. Much equipment does not care about the frequency. If your equipment is indifferent to frequency, then this is more efficient than using your inverter or using a voltage/frequency converter.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Regardless of the size of wiring originally installed, it's a good bet the installed breaker is the right size for the wire.

Hence, if it's a 10a breaker, it'll deliver 1200Va @ 120V, if it's a 16a breaker, it'll deliver 1920Va @ 120V. No need to change the wire if you can live with the power each will deliver.

That is correct, of course, but 16 amps of total shore power (common on European boats) will be very little at 120v. 10 amp branch circuits are only 1200Va (or even 1100Va), not enough to run many appliances. Consider also calorifier immersion heaters. If you have very small power needs this could be ok, but for many of us, to halve the power capacity of the whole AC system would be unworkable.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

Have you installed this unit or know of anyone that has. They seem very well priced? We are looking at the 10KVA model.

It weighs 75kg! That's 165 pounds. And it duplicates the function of a separate 110v battery charger which is much lighter, cheaper, marine rated, and can be used for other purposes. Assuming you already have the inverter or a 230v charger/inverter.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by newsailor0193

We found a catamaran we are interested in. It has a European electrical system- 220v. We will be starting out in the US and probably be in the US and Bahamas for the first few years. Will this be a problem as liveaboards?

It depends on your cruising plans.

Because, it only matters when you are connected to shore power, which is only available if you're at the dock. If like many cruisers you plan to spend a good deal of time on the hook or on a ball, it may only matter rarely.

Some docks in North America have 240v power available. It will be 60 Hz, not 50 Hz, but that won't matter much. Otherwise, if you wish to connect to 120v shore power, you will need a transformer. Portable ones are available.

If you do not convert your boat, you will need 240v appliances. Some things are dual voltage so it's just a matter of changing the plug and perhaps resetting a switch - most electronics, for example. You will have a more difficult time finding things like kitchen appliances and power tools that will accept 240v, because they are not sold in North America. But you can use little plug-in converters to run 120v appliances on your boat, when necessary.

We've been told that we could do a conversion, but we're not really sure what the conversion entails.

We just want to make sure that it's possible to do a conversion, and that we wouldn't be damaging the appliances in the long run.

Or, should we just move on from this boat?

It depends on how deep of a conversion you perform.

You can leave the boat wired for 240v, and install a transformer on board so you can connect to either 120v or 240v without needing a portable transformer. That's fairly inexpensive.

If you start switching over the internal wiring so that it all meets North American standards, you'll replace a lot of components, it will be expensive, and fit and finish will be a factor since the outlets aren't the same size and shape.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jammer

. . .Some docks in North America have 240v power available. It will be 60 Hz, not 50 Hz, but that won't matter much. . . . .

Point of order -- North American docks with 240v power will be split phase, three-wire plus ground. A completely different system not in any way compatible with 230v single phase power.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Regardless of the size of wiring originally installed, it's a good bet the installed breaker is the right size for the wire.

Hence, if it's a 10a breaker, it'll deliver 1200Va @ 120V, if it's a 16a breaker, it'll deliver 1920Va @ 120V. No need to change the wire if you can live with the power each will deliver.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That is correct, of course, but 16 amps of total shore power (common on European boats) will be very little at 120v. 10 amp branch circuits are only 1200Va (or even 1100Va), not enough to run many appliances. Consider also calorifier immersion heaters. If you have very small power needs this could be ok, but for many of us, to halve the power capacity of the whole AC system would be unworkable.

You are missing my point. You are talking total shorepower capability and I'm referring to the branch circuit wiring. The only 10A branch circuits I've seen are to dedicated appliances, which may or may not need to be changed. I've never seen a 10A branch circuit feeding receps, only 16A, which is very usable @ 120V.

BTW, your 1500W @ 230V calorifier immersion heater is only 375W when reducing the voltage by half. Yep, it'll take longer to heat your water, or change the element to 750W @ 120V, it'll work fine on that 10A branch circuit.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by DotDun

You are missing my point. You are talking total shorepower capability and I'm referring to the branch circuit wiring. The only 10A branch circuits I've seen are to dedicated appliances, which may or may not need to be changed. I've never seen a 10A branch circuit feeding receps, only 16A, which is very usable @ 120V.

BTW, your 1500W @ 230V calorifier immersion heater is only 375W when reducing the voltage by half. Yep, it'll take longer to heat your water, or change the element to 750W @ 120V, it'll work fine on that 10A branch circuit.

Well, I was talking about BOTH total shorepower as well as branch capacity.

If EITHER is undersized for your particular usage, then you will have problems.

The relevance of all of this really depends on how you use power on board. For some people and some boats it won't be a problem.

Most European boats and all UK boats (because they use UK peculiar "ring mains") have a single breaker for AC outlets, so 16 amps at 110v will be really dicey if you are using much plug in gear or ANY high power plug in gear like vacuum cleaner, electric kettle or microwave. On my boat (intense electrical use), 16 amps for all the sockets is marginal even at 230v.

But again -- YMMV depending on what kind of equipment you use.

[robert sailor]

We have a British boat wired for 220 volts. It just hasn't been an issue. As others have said for cruisers that are actually going somewhere your way better off with 220 volts to begin with. That said in Central America most marinas offer both voltages, if your going to be in a marina. We carry a transformer that we can plug into our inverter 220 and it takes it to 110 if I want to operate some of my plug in 110 tools but it's rare I use it. We charge everything aboard with smaller 12 volt inverters that knock it up to 110, that looks after cameras,laptops, tablets etc. We've had this boat for over 5 years and between the Med and east and west Caribbean we have never needed or wanted anything different. If your boat is going to live most of its life in USA marinas then I'd probably buy a boat that was all 110v.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Point of order -- North American docks with 240v power will be split phase, three-wire plus ground. A completely different system not in any way compatible with 230v single phase power.

School me, Dockhead. I am curious. I understand the differences between the systems; yes, by convention European has one leg of the 240v supply bonded to the ground while North American power has the midpoint between the 240v supplies bonded to the ground. But neither of these systems allows this bonding to occur in the boat.

Why would a boat with European wiring be incompatible with a midpoint ground?

A closely related question. What do those of you who have boats with European wiring do when connecting to shore power in the Americas?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jammer

School me, Dockhead. I am curious. I understand the differences between the systems; yes, by convention European has one leg of the 240v supply bonded to the ground while North American power has the midpoint between the 240v supplies bonded to the ground. But neither of these systems allows this bonding to occur in the boat.

Why would a boat with European wiring be incompatible with a midpoint ground?

A closely related question. What do those of you who have boats with European wiring do when connecting to shore power in the Americas?

Well, North American 240v is two legs -- "split phase" -- of 120v each. it has three wires plus ground.

European 230v is a single leg of 230v. It is one leg out of three-phase 400v. It has two wires plus ground.

You cannot connect the two systems together.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-...electric_power

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-...electric_power


Incidentally, in the UK there is a special power suppyl system for outdoor power tools which is 110v. But it has nothing to do with North American 110v single phase power. It's three wire (plus ground) split phase based on two 55v legs. It is specifically designed to prevent electrocutions on construction sites. Recognized by yellow plugs.

Shore power in Europe for commercial vessels is 380v or 400v, three phase, with four wires plus ground. Recognized by red plugs (230v single phase is a blue plug). Note to self: Since due to our size we often berth in commercial harbours or fishing harbours, we need to be able to connect to this. I need to find the plugs and order them so that I can make up some adapters.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, North American 240v is two legs -- "split phase" -- of 120v each. it has three wires plus ground.

European 230v is a single leg of 230v. It is one leg out of three-phase 400v. It has two wires plus ground.

You cannot connect the two systems together.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-...electric_power

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-...electric_power

Well, certainly! If you connect the 2 live systems together something will smoke. But that's not the question.

Yes! If wired properly, the EU type C, E, F receptacles can be connected to US 240V. Obviously the appliances need to support 60hz power. I know of several residential homes in S. Florida that are owned by EU'ians that had an electrician install EU receptacles so they could plug in their shavers, laptops, cell phone chargers, hair clippers, etc. I even witnessed a local building inspector pass the installation of EU receps stating it was 'fine'.

The appliance has no clue that it's neutral and ground are at 120V differential. (most appliances don't even have a ground wire)

[sailorchic34]

Just a quick note that from a frequency standpoint, most (nearly all) 50hz motors will be quite happy at 60hz. That is they will run slightly faster RPM but will not over heat.

Trying to run a single speed (non inverter duty) 60hz motor on 50hz on the other hand, will more times then not cause the motor to overheat. There are many variables, but it's generally not going to work well.

Resistance loads of course don't really care either way.

So just using a simple transformer to increase 110V to 220V would generally be fine to do.