60 hertz to 50 hertz fix?

[Talbot]

If changing the frequency is vitally important, the only method I know is to convert the incoming supply to 12vDC (or 24 if that is yours) and then use a good sine wave inverter to change it back to the correct voltage /frequency required.

[Mauruuru]

you can not convert from 50-60 Hz using a plug. Nor do you need to. An AC 1 phase motor will run on either 50 or 60Hz. A 50Hz rated motor may run a bit faster on 60Hz and a 60Hz rated one maybe a little slower on 50 and in both cases maybe less efficient and a little warmer but not so you would notice. Caribbean countries routinely use US appliances on 50Hz. You can not convert 1 phase 120v to 240v using the same source. 240v comes from a transformer with center grounded secondary that gives 120v to ground from each leg and 240v leg to leg.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Rumpi

Something is wrong in this narative, actually several things:
1. A 240V 32A 1phase european receptacle exists but is basicly unknown in the yacht business, the 16A version beeing standard.
2. Receptacles are insensitive to Hz. The yellow and blue ones can be either frequency. Green is used for indicating other frequencys.
3. The only country I know of using nameplate 115V/50Hz is Barbados.

What actual receptacles does the boat have?
If european wired I would expect one yellow 3 round pin (P+N+PE 4h, in use in the UK) and two blue 3 round pin (P+N+PE 6h, in use everywhere). If you have NEMA receptacles (flat pins, locking) the boat is wired for US power. You could also have a dual systems boat with a 125V 60Hz US circuit and a european 240V 50Hz circuit, in wich case the yellow receptacle would have flat pins and the blue ones round pins. This would be repeated inside the boat with flat pin and round pin receptacles.

Rumpi, You ought to write a book (maybe you already did). I'd buy it and I don't even really need it since I'm not going anywhere for the foreseeable future. I'd just like to know all that stuff; can't say how many times I looked at weird dock outlets or power cords and wondered what the heck I was looking at.

Our boat is a lot simpler than the OP's but we bought a great isolation transformer in China which converts just about any voltage to any other voltage just by changing some plugs on the front. We kept the boat totally standard running on 110v, using the appliances we had already or bought from the US and with whatever hertz were provided. The microwave was an exception and was noisy and we got rid of it but everything else was OK as far as we knew. We needed an air conditioner however, and it was a bit much to ship from the US so we used a 240v local unit and branched power for it off the dock line before going into the transformer. Later, back in 110 land, we reversed the whole system and used the transformer to provide 240v for the air cond.

So a simple approach worked for us.

[stimpsonjcat]

You could always couple two permanent magnet motors (or even non PM, though that is a little trickier) together with the input motor being a 50Hz motor and the output motor being a 60Hz motor. Assuming their speeds match and they are large enough for your loads.

[carlwk3c]

Originally Posted by DockDoc

And the winner is

....

I feel out there somewhere is an adaptor that will bridge the 2 110 US inputs onto a single pin and then allow me to hook up to the 3 pin receptacle.

Hubbell YQ230 "Smart" Adapter looks possible and promising?

Nope. The two 110V legs in a US 220 circuit are 280 degrees out of phase and referenced to the neutral. You cannot bridge them together. (Well, you physically could, but sparks would fly.)

[Tikka]

Sorry to tell you , You are taking for ride.
Your boat has 115V connectivity , marina supply 115V.
Where is the problem. Frequency is irrelevant because the boat wouldn't
have any synchronouns motors and there is no such a thing like current conversion.
Simply your boat take less or more current, make sure you not overloading supply.

[hellosailor]

Dockdoc-
As BotanyBay said, you just can't tell how any particular marina's power wiring has been set up. Trying to combine 110VAC outlets to get 220VAC is *always* going to be a dangerous roll of the dice, unless you personally inspect the wiring at each marina and then configure your wiring to match--if it can. Not a reliable or robust way to do things.

Since one of your 230VAC intakes is isolated and dedicated for the AC, I'd suggest getting a simple 110-240 step-up transformer or other "big heavy dumb and simple" box to feed the AC system from that isolated source. And perhaps a cord with proper adapters so you can just plug into 220VAC marina power, if the AC system will be happy with that. 50/60Hz apparently will not be an issue here, simple voltage conversion will solve that problem.

The other question is exactly what other types of 230VAC loads are on the boat? Without knowing the specific loads and types (inductive? resistive?) it is hard to guess how to feed them. If they can all run off 60Hz, then putting a second step-up transformer on board to feed that larger system may solve that problem. (Two small transformers, one on each 230VAC run, will be way cheaper than getting one huge one, I expect. And more flexible.)

IF all your loads, besides the AC, can be powered by the 30A 110VAC (110, 115, 117, 120, whatever the local flavor is) circuit, then just use that, and whatever assortment of conventional charger/inverter/step-up equipment fits your space as well as handles the loads. But you'll really need to make up a list of all the power hungry toys to figure out the best option.

Magic adapters? 50-60Hz converters? Yeah, there are such things. Military gensets sometimes have the option to provide "every" flavor of power--by changing internal connections. You can connect a 50Hz generator/motor and a 60Hz one on the same shaft, so one side spins it up and the other side provides power at the other frequency rate. But that's gonna be one expensive puppy to keep on your boat. There are some places you just don't want to go.(G)

[Rumpi]

Thanks Wingsail, I don't know enough to write a book about these things. I do know a little bit about the more common installs. The way you did things is the logical way if one does not want full dual circuits. It's only drawback is having only half the power when transforming 240V into 110V since 240V circuits are usualy fused at 16A.

The OP's boat has evidently had some tought poured into it by the yard or some PO. Unfortunately he has not considered to answer or post pictures so we can not know what is actually installed. He may already have all the equippement he needs installed and ready to go, only needing configuring.
I for example don't know of any Mastervolt isolation transformer for 110-125V with a 16A breaker. I do know they make an autotransformer wich requires you to switch breakers from 30A to 16A when used to transform european 240V to 110V since 16A is the standard breaker for standard "household" european power. When one is back in the US the 30A breaker is installed and the full ~3.5kW are again available.
What he has on the 240V circuits is anybodys guess. My guess is that the domestic 240V circuit is wired for 3 wire european power. The transformer could be a true isolation one or another autotransformer (more likley). If someone put the european 32A plug on it they probably also provided the apropiate adapter for the common 16A outlet. Such a setup would allow usage of any device on any dockpower and would be the logical choice for a charter boat. Maybe he even has a frequency converter somewhere in the system.
The AC units were obviously chosen to be indifferent to frequency so the question is how are they wired and what the transformer that is installed actually does.

[windcastle1]

Originally Posted by lvictorlucas

The major issue running 50 Hz loads on 60 Hz is when they derive their timing from the line by some type of frequency or phase synchronization. With just a few exceptions these are devices like plug in clocks and motors. Almost all 50 Hz transformers will be more efficient at 60 Hz. Most motors will run faster and unless operated near maximum load or for extended periods of time will not be damaged. Almost all devices such as incandescent light bulbs, battery chargers and welders actually prefer 60 Hz. Running 60 Hz motors or transformer powered devices at 50 Hz will tend to over heat them and I would not recommend it without understanding the effects on the particular device although most can be safely run for a short period of time. No consumer connector, wire or cable is sensitive to 50 or 60 Hz although this would be an issue to the power company in its transmission lines.

Going to get a lot of push back from the group with what I’m about to say.

We have a Euro 230 volt 50 hz Lagoon. The only item that does not like the 60 hz is the water pump drain motor on the washer/dryer. Everything else absolutely no problem.

On the shore power side. We did have to connect the neutral wire to the other hot wire from the dock. We did this by changing the wire on the dock plug. The entire boat has GFI breakers on both shore power plugs as well as all of the boat breakers. Nothing trips but if you do short neutral to ground it of course trips as you would expect it too. Of course the “official” fix are isolation transformers on your shore power circuit but you will shell out some cash for these. 3 years and still alive.🤗

[transmitterdan]

Why would there be a problem connecting one of your 2 hot wires to dockside neutral? The whole USA is wired like that. Also, your observations about running 50Hz stuff on 60Hz is typical in my experience. Most problems arise going the other way (running 60Hz motors and transformers on 50Hz).

No pushback as far as I can tell.

[windcastle1]

Because the boat is 3 wire. One hot (230volt) one neutral and one ground. US shore power is 4 wire. Two hots (120 each wire) one neutral and one ground. Putting a “hot” wire on a neutral lead is against code. Neutral is supposed to be 0 volts.

[transmitterdan]

Ok, I understand.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by windcastle1

Going to get a lot of push back from the group with what I’m about to say.



We have a Euro 230 volt 50 hz Lagoon. The only item that does not like the 60 hz is the water pump drain motor on the washer/dryer. Everything else absolutely no problem.



On the shore power side. We did have to connect the neutral wire to the other hot wire from the dock. We did this by changing the wire on the dock plug. The entire boat has GFI breakers on both shore power plugs as well as all of the boat breakers. Nothing trips but if you do short neutral to ground it of course trips as you would expect it too. Of course the “official” fix are isolation transformers on your shore power circuit but you will shell out some cash for these. 3 years and still alive.[emoji847]

That is the unofficial fix, and it works, many consider it unsafe as you have lost your secondary fail safe and now are dependent on only the single ground.
But it does work I’ve seen it done and there are a whole lot of boats that do that, and it’s easily undone should you return to the 220V world.
But you’ll find it “officially” discouraged, it’s a little like a gun with no safety. So long as you recognize and understand the risks, your an adult, your choice.

I first saw it done on an Amel, At first I thought it crazy, can’t work, but it’s hard to argue that when your on the boat and see it working.

It’s similar to portable generators that have floating grounds, I believe that is also against code, but it works, and I’ve even had knowledgeable folks claim it’s safer?

Not saying powering the neutral is safer, it’s not, talking only the floating ground.

[transmitterdan]

His ground isn’t floating though. It’s connected to earth at the shore side. And all of his CE marked appliances are certified safe against leakage from both hot and neutral sides. So it’s safe in my opinion. No pushback here.

[SV Demeter]

Originally Posted by windcastle1

Going to get a lot of push back from the group with what I’m about to say.

We have a Euro 230 volt 50 hz Lagoon. The only item that does not like the 60 hz is the water pump drain motor on the washer/dryer. Everything else absolutely no problem.

On the shore power side. We did have to connect the neutral wire to the other hot wire from the dock. We did this by changing the wire on the dock plug. The entire boat has GFI breakers on both shore power plugs as well as all of the boat breakers. Nothing trips but if you do short neutral to ground it of course trips as you would expect it too. Of course the “official” fix are isolation transformers on your shore power circuit but you will shell out some cash for these. 3 years and still alive.🤗

This is likely the route we will go on the boat we are looking at purchasing now. At least initially as we have a good bit of upgrade/refit work. I will likely just re-wire the boat for 220v 60hz (4) wire shore power down the road and add 60hz equipment as we refit.

What I worry about (maybe unnecessarily) is possibly overloading wiring by exceeding its ampacity. Our marina is standard US style with 4 wire 220. When you connect the second hot to the neutral at the boat end of your shorepower cord you are effectively creating a 240v three wire input to the boat correct? If this is the case then the ampacity ratings on the boats AC wiring should not be impacted assuming the boat is wired for 240v 3 wire yes? How would I handle outlets in the cabin that I want to be 120v? Need a smaller breaker for starters right?

Now for the 60hz 50hz issue. Here are the existing AC components on the boat which of these will be damaged if I run them with 60hz shore power?

Compressor for fridge cold plate system 230v 50hz
High Pressure pump for watermaker 230v 50hz
Electric stove 230v 50hz
Mastervolt 12v 80amp battery charger 230v 50hz
Combo washing machine 230v 50z