6vdc Trojan T105 (225ah) Equalization

[john61ct]

Yes anything under 100% Full via endAmps is PSOC, if you never get there hurts longevity, ideal is most cycles.

Charge sources generally don't know from amps acceptance at the batt.

Owners job is to tweak Absorb Hold until they see bank is reaching endAmps most of the time.

Or 3+ times per week manually.

Or accept lower longevity, many do, too hard for their setup.

[a64pilot]

One thing that may be important here.
We are talking about 2, possibly $100 batteries? You got four years out of them?
What’s to fix? Yes you can obsess and likely spend hundred if not a thousands of dollars and maybe double their life expectancy, and likely never recover the costs.
Sometimes it’s better to murder s set of batteries and not worry about it.
Last power Boat, I had two large Walmart batteries in it, bought. Anew set every other year, then they went to the 5th wheel for two years.
So I bought a battery a year is you will, and never checked anything, never had any fancy chargers, or monitors or anything.

It becomes different if your bank costs a grand or more, and you plan on being places for long intervals where a replacement bank is either insanely expensive or just can’t be had.
Just sometimes it makes more sense to just treat a battery bank as an expendable item. Like the oil in your engine.

[rgleason]

I have only 3 seasons on them. Best price found is $154 each.

I agree there is no need to obsess, just need to understand maintenance and operation and know why it happened and if system is configured properly.

Summary

21-Jun 5:01 Turn on Ref
21-Jun 6:40 Ref=0c Link10 12.25v -5.3a -9.0ah
21-Jun 8:24 Ref=-4c Link10 13.95v -4.2a -14.8ah
21-Jun 8:31 Ref=-4c Link10 14.60v 26.2a -6.2ah Engine Running now.
21-Jun 9:06 Ref=-4c Link10 14.4v 8.6a -1.3ah Eng off bv=14.4v
21-Jun 1:55 Ref=-5 Link10 12.3v -19.3a Ref left running. No engine.
22-Jun 4:00-7:30 Ref=1 to-8 Link10 12.2v end -5.2 approx No engine
22-Jun 7:30 Ref=-8 Link10 12.3v -19.3a
Ref left running. During night used another 21 amps to be down -42 amps in the morning. 22-Jun
Drew down batt -42ah 6.24v +6.24v=12.48v = 80% SOC .42/225 .81 SOG

Refrigerator not turned on after this!

23-Jun 9:00-15:45 6.75 hrs Bulk -b- from 6.24v x2 = 12.48v Charged with Balmar 65-90 and ARS-5
23-Jun 15:45-22:00 6.25 hrs Absorption -A- from 7.44v x 2 = 14.88v
24-Jun Battery resting overnight with no loads.
24-Jun 90% SOG=6.31 6.31 + 6.32 = 12.63v SG=1275 in all cells
24-Jun 7:17-11:30 5.25 hrs Bulk -b- from 6.31v Remained in bulk the entire time. Shut it off
24-Jun 11:30 Link10 shows 4.5 ah charging, and clamping meter shows 2.7-0.5 at the battery.
24-Jun 6.92v+6.90v=13.82 Measured


My Questions are:
Why is the regulator still in Bulk -b-?
Why isn't the charge current going down to 0.1amps?


Should I get to a dock and just try to equalize it next?

[rgleason]

I called Balmar and spoke with Tom at Technical support. He advised:

Why still in Bulk -b-?

1. b1c Alc and F1c time limit settings are in increments of 6 minutes, so 18 minutes should be 18min/6= "00.3" (Note in all time modes, the "period" is ignored)
2. I had b1c, Alc and F1c set at "01.8" which would have been 18 x 6 minutes = 108 minutes = 1 hr 48 min. minimum for the first stage.
3. SLP Temperature Compensation Slope for the battery manufacturer's setting, EG: ".005 volts" or 5 milivolts should be set as "00.5" (ignoring the period) and not "05.0"

What is required for the typical 6 minute increment (second time period) to allow the program to progress to the next stage? Field threshold % must not rise above 65%, or the clock is rest

1. Current must stay within required parameters, or the clock is reset
2. Must have stable voltage (not more than 0.2v change over 2 seconds), or the clock is reset

Why isn't the charge current going down to 0.1amps?

1. Trying to measure low amperage less than 5 amps is difficult to get accurate. Clamping meters included. The area of the charge curve from 95% to 100% is very flat and long, so it takes hours and hours to get to 100%.
2. It is best to charge the 95%-100% portion at a dock with 120vac. Chargers. - A good alternative is adequate solar.
3. Boats normally operate in the their alternators in the 50%-95% range, as that is most effective.
4. Equalizing is a deliberate overcharging, often done only before and after the boating season.
5. Equalizing should be supervised and actively managed and SG checked every 1/2 hour, in a cool vented place.

So I will make those time corrections and check my SLP value, try running the engine again to check that it goes into -A- as expected. Then I will charge and equalize at the dock with the batteries out of the boat. I believe my batteries are now at 95% SOG which is typical for most boats on moorings.

[rgleason]

I am not at a dock with power, I have solar and can improve that, but
I might have to accept less than optimal

Yes anything under 100% Full via endAmps is PSOC, if you never get there hurts longevity, ideal is most cycles.

Charge sources generally don't know from amps acceptance at the batt.

Owners job is to tweak Absorb Hold until they see bank is reaching endAmps most of the time.

Or 3+ times per week manually. - (Rick) yikes!

Or accept lower longevity, many do, too hard for their setup.

[Maine Sail]

Some observations and quick bullets.

#1 Stop trying to charge your bank to 100% SOC with the alternator. You're looking at 10+ hours to do so and that is if you don't drop to float too early and the batteries are very healthy. Let solar finish the bank when you're not there. Get it back to 80-85% SOC with the alt and let the solar take over from there.

#2 Cycling in the upper 20% of capacity (80% to 100%) is horribly inefficient and slow. Bulk charging (real bulk) is as efficient as 98-99% but absorption (CV) is a diminishing efficiency during the absorption stage. In the upper 90's you can be feeding the battery 1Ah and it is only actually storing .4Ah...

#3 Your batteries appear to be sulfated based on behavior and will require a longer absorption, ideal for solar.

#4 Please don't pay attention to your Link's SOC calculation

#5 You can't judge an alternators output performance during anything but "bulk charging", real bulk charging, not Balmar's voltage limited bulk (bv).

#6 If the stator or rotor or both were replaced by the alternator rebuilder you no longer have a Balmar alternator. Balmar alternators are built with custom wound stators and rotors.

[rgleason]

I attach a revised document clarifying some of the values for programming the ARS-5.

"Balmar-ARS-5-Program-for-Trojan-T105-revised-6-25-2018.pdf"

Balmar Tech Support, Tom was very helpful yet again.

I do think an improvement for the balmar regulators would be a more user friendly way of programming without some of the archane rules "such as time fields entry, ignore the period". I think a better screen might help too.

[rgleason]

MarineSail,


Thanks very much. I think I figured out I was pushing the ball up hill too much... but you quantify it much better than I could have.

So when on the dock I may have hrs of charging to get down to 1amp, depending on how my 14watt solar does. Then and only then, try to equalize. It may not de-sulfate.

Your other bullets are very helpful.

I think my stator was found to be burnt out when we replaced the engine. I should have rebuilt it myself!

Is there still a source for the balmar stator and other rebuild parts so I can turn it back into a Balmar 65-100 or even into a Balmar 70 or 100 amp? Running at 1500-1600 to get any current is ridiculous.

[rgleason]

Last weekend I tried to get into a dock to charge properly and was not successful with that, but I did try charging again with the eng/alternator and found that after a longish charge of 2 hours, that the batteries were at 12.6 and quickly dropped down to 12.4v after I ran the frig. I don't think they have nearly the original capacity.

The new (2)T105 have been charged using the 0-30v DC Power Supply following the Trojan guidelines as written in the attachment below. I used a simple 120v lamp timer to help.

Bulk
They were paralleled and Bulk charged, with the charger attachment being switched several times using Constant Current at 22.5a until 7.41v was reached. About 4 hours.

Absorption
They were parallel and Absorption charged at Constant Voltage at 7.30v until the current dropped to below 2.45a, then adjusted CV to 7.1v until less than 2.35a.

Separated the batteries and did a 1hr absorption on each one again. About 5 hrs.

Then paralleled them and set it for Float Constant Current starting at 6.75a and adjusting down to 2.35a when the voltage got high. This took about 2hours.

Float
Then I separated the batteries again and started equalizing them by applying a Constant Voltage of 8.1v. The amps dropped fairly quickly down to about 11.5a and then reduced to about 10.5a with the batteries bubbling noticeably. The equalization of the first battery was done for 2 hours (they say 2-4 hours). I've started equalization of the second battery now. It dropped to about 10.6a fairly quickly when the 8.1v was applied. That will be done for 2 hours...

Equalization
I am told Equalization should be done 3 times. The next time I equalize, I will parallel the batteries again and try to do the second equalization on both batteries together. I am not sure what I am looking for here as a sign when to stop. There is hydrogen smell and I have opened doors etc. I just realized that SG should be checked every 1/2 hour. I am guessing that is a cuttoff for equalization?

Amps in + and - observation
I've noticed something with the clampon meter, that the negative wire from the power source has fewer amps than the positive wire. When it is a high amperage number like 20a the difference is about 1 amp, when it gets lower it gets less. I've tried switching wires around and changing the + wire and - wire but that does not seem to make a difference. For awhile I thought it was because the Power source was not grounded through the third prong, but I found it is grounded. Is there an explanation?

Thanks.
PS
I'll try to recover the old ones in a couple of weeks as John suggested. It might work I think. If that does not work, I'll take them in and get the core charge back.

[rgleason]

After equalization separately, last night I paralleled the two 6v batteries and tried to apply 8.1 C.V. (constant volts) to the doubled up bank, the 30a 0-30v Variable DC Power Source would not stay in that mode, and would kick back to C.C. Constant Current. I tried it several times in different ways and concluded that I would have to do the next equalization separately as before.

My shop at that point was smelling from the hydrogen, although I had opened outside doors etc. One of the condo owners was concerned about the hydrogen and did not like the smell, so I stopped (since he said a 4% hydrogen concentration will be explosive). I will continue this process in a week, starting with another full charge, then equalization, in another place where I will not be interrupted.

This morning I found the battery hydrometer and checked each cell they were all about 1276 and Trojan says 100% is 1277. I did not have to adjust for temperature.

Should this SP measurement be the determination of when to stop equaliziing? !00% = SP 1277

The two batteries rested over night and measured 6.43v and 6.44v in the morning. So there was still excess charge on the plates.

[lateral]

Hydrogen is odourless and light. It will accumulate in ceilings or head skyward.
That is acid.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by rgleason

After equalization separately, last night I paralleled the two 6v batteries and tried to apply 8.1 C.V. (constant volts) to the doubled up bank, the 30a 0-30v Variable DC Power Source would not stay in that mode, and would kick back to C.C. Constant Current. I tried it several times in different ways and concluded that I would have to do the next equalization separately as before.

My shop at that point was smelling from the hydrogen, although I had opened outside doors etc. One of the condo owners was concerned about the hydrogen and did not like the smell, so I stopped (since he said a 4% hydrogen concentration will be explosive). I will continue this process in a week, starting with another full charge, then equalization, in another place where I will not be interrupted.

This morning I found the battery hydrometer and checked each cell they were all about 1276 and Trojan says 100% is 1277. I did not have to adjust for temperature.

Should this SP measurement be the determination of when to stop equaliziing? !00% = SP 1277

The two batteries rested over night and measured 6.43v and 6.44v in the morning. So there was still excess charge on the plates.

Just curious—- what does hydrogen smell like?

[wsmurdoch]

Like hydrogen, sulfuric acid is odorless. You may perhaps be smelling hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs) which is produced when a lead acid battery is overcharged.

Health Concerns with Batteries - Battery University
Charging Information For Lead Acid Batteries – Battery University

Bill

[john61ct]

which is produced when a lead acid battery is charging properly, toward the end

[john61ct]

Note that Specific Gravity is just like voltage, only accurate after the batts are isolated and resting for some time, up to 72 hours.

If you set your PS to 8.1V, and the batts are accepting so much current that it can't hold that voltage, let it go back to "CC" mode.

Measuring amps, you should see them decline - assuming the PS is sized large enough for that big a bank - right through the transition to CV and until Equalization is complete.

If the PS is putting out max amps, it is too small, watch you don't burn it out, overcurrent protection can fail or be missing on cheap units. Getting the batts to a higher SoC on the more powerful charger first might help, or stick to one batt at a time.

Equalization is complete when SG stops rising, or you get tired, or the neighbor gets bothered by the smell 8-)

You can't "overcharge" FLA as long as voltage is held within spec, and you keep them watered.

Yes that is an exaggeration, but. . .

Obviously you are getting very close there, most will say just fine, but if you've come this far why not dot the Is and cross the Ts