Alternator Cooling

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Dan Kimblad

Only one alt and charging 262Amp at 1500 rpm in the beginning.
And freezing cool after a hour.
https://youtu.be/9CrBNP1dqzs

Did you actually manage to get that alternator on the D2-50?

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by hjohnson

At least on my car, the coolant temperature sits right at 90C once the car warms up. I would imagine the coolant loop on a marine engine would be similar.

Coincidentally, the max temperature for most alternators is also 90C, but that’s also the max case temperature, as it’s impractical to install the temperature sensor internally in most cases. Certain components will certainly be hotter.

The real question is whether the heat exchanger is sufficient to accommodate the additional thermal load of the alternator. I suspect you could get away with it in cold waters like the Salish Sea or the Great Lakes, but you’d probably be breaking the limits in the Med or Caribbean.

The cooling solution would need to be engineered for the whole system.

The thing we’ve considered (given that our current engine is raw water cooled anyway) is removing the rectifier from our alternator and mounting it off-board with forced ventilation. Having that extra bit of heat blowing into our cabin would actually be appreciated 8 months out of the year.

On BMW 5 (e39/e60) and 7series there is for example a 2nd cooling curcuit for the 7 or 9 zone aircon/heater and also for the alternator, that runs on ambient temp and the radiator sits in the rear wheelhouse before the tyre and in the front with a switchable loop through the engine block to heat up to room temp from freezing temp in winter quickly. BMW drivers know this well as the circulation pump on that curcuit was always a troublemaker and you either had a driving freezer or sauna due to that....guess how i know...

Same some cooling trucks have alternators with seperate radidator+fan and independant coolant curcuit on ambient to cool them and hydraulics down, thats i assume 300A Hitachi or Leece Neville that Dan is using.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

On BMW 5 (e39/e60) and 7series there is for example a 2nd cooling curcuit for the 7 or 9 zone aircon/heater and also for the alternator, that runs on ambient temp and the radiator sits in the rear wheelhouse before the tyre and in the front with a switchable loop through the engine block to heat up to room temp from freezing temp in winter quickly. BMW drivers know this well as the circulation pump on that curcuit was always a troublemaker and you either had a driving freezer or sauna due to that....guess how i know...

Same some cooling trucks have alternators with seperate radidator+fan and independant coolant curcuit on ambient to cool them and hydraulics down, thats i assume 300A Hitachi or Leece Neville that Dan is using.

Same with the early Gen III Range Rovers.


The alternator was one expensive problem I had with my E39 540i, otherwise the most reliable car I ever owned.


My Range had the same 4.4 liter BMW engine and the same alternator, but never any trouble over many years of use.

[CaptainRivet]

Had the M5 e39...loved it well just riped the BS out, normal AC and Bosch alternator without that crap done it perfectly and reliable.

[Dan Kimblad]

Quick answer about water-cooled alternator in a car.
The water system is pressurized and the temperature is close to the boiling point.
The seal in the generator will fog up from the salt on the road during the winter.

My system is not pressurized and the temperature is about 12C warmer than the sea.
This is a BIG difference.

I don't believe in cooling the alternator in a car with the cooling system.
BUT my solution has nothing in common for a car to use in a marine application.
Please do not mix in car alternators that are water cooled.
Answering this after having dismantled a large number of generators and tested them in my bench.

[Dan Kimblad]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Did you actually manage to get that alternator on the D2-50?

I am looking for a solution for that one to.
The problem is the bracket. I will see how to solve this.

[Dan Kimblad]

A small video from todays exercise.
Only 370Amp at idling and the temperature was 42C 107F
Rev it up and only 475 Amp at 1400 rpm.
I have to shorten some cable and ad up some cable also.
https://youtube.com/shorts/05jGQ2Flb6U

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Dan Kimblad

A small video from todays exercise.
Only 370Amp at idling and the temperature was 42C 107F
Rev it up and only 475 Amp at 1400 rpm.
I have to shorten some cable and ad up some cable also.
https://youtube.com/shorts/05jGQ2Flb6U

You are the master of the alternator, 376A at idle and 475A on 1400RPM, holy smoke.....hopefully not :-)

Yes assumed you get into issues with the braket on the volvo. And then the MDI box and volvo's D+...need to hack that too otherwise engine don't start.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by hjohnson

I’ll actually have 460Ahr of LiFePO4.

But that said, the alternator is going to be controlled by a Wakespeed WS500, so I can derate the alternator as required. My use case is primarily long weekend getaways, with the occasional 7 to 8 day trip.

The plan is to Leave the dock with a fully charged battery, and supplement with the engine as a range extender. I don’t expect the engine to bring the battery back up to full charge except on very long motor runs (say motoring up/down Jervis Inlet).

I run my Bosch (out of 944 Porsche) with factory cooling cowl to saloon air at 80A continuous into 460Ahr LiFePO4 4S2P.
Single V belt and will bolt straight onto yanmars after removing 2mm off back leg boss and penny washer on front to align pulleys. Going two years on same belt. (3GM30f) Derated alternator to 80A from 115. Was on 460Ahr 4x6v LA for three yrs before that.
Cheap as chips and great alternator, never tripped the temp sensor set at 80°c.

[more]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

And then the MDI box and volvo's D+...need to hack that too otherwise engine don't start.

perkins series 400 (you think volvo penta) don't need any electronic,current to start,work except 12v dc for power starter motor. you dont need working alternator on engine. simply jumpstart to starter motor ,in cold area first jumpstart heating element later on starter motor. normaly on starter motor you have starting reley 1mm2 10 cm long cable with 12v is enough

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by more

perkins series 400 (you think volvo penta) don't need any electronic,current to start,work except 12v dc for power starter motor. you dont need working alternator on engine. simply jumpstart to starter motor ,in cold area first jumpstart heating element later on starter motor. normaly on starter motor you have starting reley 1mm2 10 cm long cable with 12v is enough

I know they are Perkins but if you have a a volvo with the MDI box things are not that simple. As the MDI box is connected directly to your gauges and ignotion you have 3 possibilities.
1) you keep the original 115A Mitzi with D+ and MDI box and connect that to your starter. Then you just add your heavy duty alternator with external regulation as 2nd alternator completly independent from the start curcuit.
2) You keep MDi and volvo gauges and need to hack the D+
3) you go back perkins original state and delete the MDI box but also need new gauges and cabling as the Volvo MDI gauges won't work anymore.

Thats why on volvo i like to keep things simple and use Nordkyn VSR200 regulator that works without modifing the 115A Mitsubishi alt or MDI. It can do 85A like this and has internal temp protection. If you need more you simply install a 2nd reman 115A Mitsubishi for 250Euro, use a bigger crankpulley for the 2nd and also connect that the the existing VSR200 as it can steer up to 3 alternators. The higher geared (1:3 ratio) will do 95-100A so you have in total approx 180A. Kiss and most economic way on MDI volvos plus you have redundancy. You just need to buy the bracket for the 2nd alternator from volvo (quite expensive, wonder why there is no cheap aftermarket avaliable) or just manufacturer your own one (its simple and cheap) and get a 2nd crankpulley+belt with the gearing ratio (can go up to 1:3.5) you want and can.
Its important you take original 115A Mitsubishi or Volvo alternator as the aftermarket ones lacking the internal temp control which you need for LFP charging. Thats why i recommend the remanufactured units as the just cost 250Euro and have the internal temp protection.

[more]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

I know they are Perkins but if you have a a volvo with the MDI box things are not that simple. As the MDI box is connected directly to your gauges and ignotion you have 3 possibilities.
1) you keep the original 115A Mitzi with D+ and MDI box and connect that to your starter. Then you just add your heavy duty alternator with external regulation as 2nd alternator completly independent from the start curcuit.
2) You keep MDi and volvo gauges and need to hack the D+
3) you go back perkins original state and delete the MDI box but also need new gauges and cabling as the Volvo MDI gauges won't work anymore.

Thats why on volvo i like to keep things simple and use Nordkyn VSR200 regulator that works without modifing the 115A Mitsubishi alt or MDI. It can do 85A like this and has internal temp protection. If you need more you simply install a 2nd reman 115A Mitsubishi for 250Euro, use a bigger crankpulley for the 2nd and also connect that the the existing VSR200 as it can steer up to 3 alternators. The higher geared (1:3 ratio) will do 95-100A so you have in total approx 180A. Kiss and most economic way on MDI volvos plus you have redundancy. You just need to buy the bracket for the 2nd alternator from volvo (quite expensive, wonder why there is no cheap aftermarket avaliable) or just manufacturer your own one (its simple and cheap) and get a 2nd crankpulley+belt with the gearing ratio (can go up to 1:3.5) you want and can.
Its important you take original 115A Mitsubishi or Volvo alternator as the aftermarket ones lacking the internal temp control which you need for LFP charging. Thats why i recommend the remanufactured units as the just cost 250Euro and have the internal temp protection.

I simply dont understand you. What MDI have with engine except temp/oil sensor alarm. some sort starting buton all this perfect working outside MDI,better. only MDI you need for RPM ,but any RPM gauge working fine over alternator

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by more

I simply dont understand you. What MDI have with engine except temp/oil sensor alarm. some sort starting buton all this perfect working outside MDI,better. only MDI you need for RPM ,but any RPM gauge working fine over alternator

MDI is the light version of an ECU that the small volvos got from the bigger engines.
Delete it and your volvo engine panel with all gauges won't work and the engine won't start. Could be the RPM meter works as only one AFTER you fix all so the engine starts...never tried.
Search for Nordkyn + MDI box and you get explained where the Mdi all interferes.