Alternator to LFP Bank or Start Batt?

[PaulCrawhorn]

Originally Posted by SOLAR SUPPORT

This was not a problem because the system voltage is usually in the range of 13.5 to 13.9 volts

Yes, exactly, like I said

Originally Posted by PaulCrawhorn

If just connecting lead to LFP for charging, the lead will never get to 100% Full.

Not a problem for cheap Starters I suppose, as long as you replace them more frequently than you usually would.

[SOLAR SUPPORT]

Originally Posted by PaulCrawhorn

Yes, exactly, like I said

As it is known, crank batteries do their job in a very short time and I don't think there will be a problem since they are not used for a long time and are charged regularly. The existing LA engine battery was charged regularly by connecting the service batteries every day with timer charging when the alternator was available, and it is in its fourth year. If your motor battery is very valuable and needs the perfect charge, it is possible to provide this with a very small and inexpensive DC-DC charger.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Very easy to diagnose most electronics problems as the unit is dead !! Fixing it might be a lot more difficult

The fact is there are loads of boat owners that can’t fix lots of things , engines , rigging , etc this just another item to the list they can’t fix

goboatingnow, "the unit is dead!" which unit?

I think you are over trivializing the level of complexity that the new battery technology has brought on. It's at least one order of magnitude more complex if you just count the number of circuit boards, and few, if any, of them put up a little flag which says, "I'm dead, replace me".

And even if you can replace it, and know which one failed, that's a lot of spares to carry.

Sure, there are a lot of owners who cannot fix everything on their boats, however the majority of cruisers I know are pretty competent, but the task has just gotten to be quite a bit more difficult. It does not scare me, I'm mechanically inclined, have a logical mind and a few tools, but its gooing t take longer and I can see that its going to be a bit much for many people. I'm just saying that there will be a lot more boats sitting idle because the electrical system is broken and there is no one to fix it.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by wingssail

....
Now, I have a question (which I asked him by email):

HOW DO WE DO PROBLEM DIAGNOSIS ON THESE NEW COMPLEX INSTALLATIONS?....

Rod, aka, Mainsail, i.e., the guy who writes/owns https://marinehowto.com/, is recovering from a very, serious stroke that kills many/most people. The stroke has impacted his ability to write and work but he has made progress since his stroke in September of 2021. Writing is difficult and time consuming, yet he is still putting out great articles. He had to close his business due to the stroke.

Rod has a Go Fund Me Page, https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-rodd...f+share-flow-1

Later,
Dan

[hjohnson]

Originally Posted by wingssail

HOW DO WE DO PROBLEM DIAGNOSIS ON THESE NEW COMPLEX INSTALLATIONS?

Pretty easily, actually. Plug in my laptop and run the software. Pretty much everything I have installed in my new, tightly integrated system has built in diagnostics. If that is toast, the unit is bad and needs to be replaced. But you just design so that it can be bypassed if need be. But then, I'm a Computer Engineer by trade, so these kinds of digital systems make sense to me.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by wingssail

goboatingnow, "the unit is dead!" which unit?



I think you are over trivializing the level of complexity that the new battery technology has brought on. It's at least one order of magnitude more complex if you just count the number of circuit boards, and few, if any, of them put up a little flag which says, "I'm dead, replace me".



And even if you can replace it, and know which one failed, that's a lot of spares to carry.



Sure, there are a lot of owners who cannot fix everything on their boats, however the majority of cruisers I know are pretty competent, but the task has just gotten to be quite a bit more difficult. It does not scare me, I'm mechanically inclined, have a logical mind and a few tools, but its gooing t take longer and I can see that its going to be a bit much for many people. I'm just saying that there will be a lot more boats sitting idle because the electrical system is broken and there is no one to fix it.

In major cruising areas these days there are electronics experts( of admittedly variable capability ) as marine electronics are ubiquitous

Equally there are yachts sitting idle waiting for engine To be sorted or rigging to be fixed.

Most electronics are either self diagnosing or simply will be dead. Dead is fairly easy to determine

Basically if you can’t fix it or afford to replace it. Don’t buy it in the first place.

If you want to be self sufficient on a modern yacht you better be very skilled in about a dozen trades!

The march of the microprocessor is unstoppable !!!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by hjohnson

Pretty easily, actually. Plug in my laptop and run the software. Pretty much everything I have installed in my new, tightly integrated system has built in diagnostics. If that is toast, the unit is bad and needs to be replaced. But you just design so that it can be bypassed if need be. But then, I'm a Computer Engineer by trade, so these kinds of digital systems make sense to me.

Me too. I can diagnose electronics in seconds , I carry a fluke scopemeter SMD rework solder station etc I’m adding a LIN bus based supervisory control system to all systems on the boat. It will highlight issues and sub systems failures.

These systems worrying me a second ( in fact my own electronics is orders of magnitude more robust then commercial marine stuff ( some is frightening fragile electrically )

[lateral]

I'm in same predicament as title.
I prefer the collective knowledge here than trying to elicit info from Victron. Also the supposed problem with the Argofet and back feeding ignition circuit; the tedium of waiting for email response. Not that that particular issue will be relevant to me.
https://community.victronenergy.com/...to-output.html

I have an auto alternator that is capable of continuous 70A (115A rated) as it is force fed external air, even at idle, regulated with a MC614. It runs cool.
I want to replace the 4x6v house with same capacity LFP. (Calb 230Ahr)
I want to charge the LFP house bank direct from alternator as it is setup for decent output and charge start/engine battery via ether argofet or Orion smart dc-dc. Nowhere in victrons documentation to I see this application. Always to start, then low capacity to house. I am aware Argofet isolator will only supply LFP profile to start SLA battery.
Is this deficiency significant enough to switch to dc-dc as described above or do Victron not recommend this configuration? Or have a sacrificial SLA?
Current SLA start is 10yrs old! Charged via ACR.
All components on hand but Argofet vs Orion has my brain in irons.

[hjohnson]

Originally Posted by lateral

I'm in same predicament as title.
I prefer the collective knowledge here than trying to elicit info from Victron. Also the supposed problem with the Argofet and back feeding ignition circuit; the tedium of waiting for email response. Not that that particular issue will be relevant to me.
https://community.victronenergy.com/...to-output.html

I have an auto alternator that is capable of continuous 70A (115A rated) as it is force fed external air, even at idle, regulated with a MC614. It runs cool.
I want to replace the 4x6v house with same capacity LFP. (Calb 230Ahr)
I want to charge the LFP house bank direct from alternator as it is setup for decent output and charge start/engine battery via ether argofet or Orion smart dc-dc. Nowhere in victrons documentation to I see this application. Always to start, then low capacity to house. I am aware Argofet isolator will only supply LFP profile to start SLA battery.
Is this deficiency significant enough to switch to dc-dc as described above or do Victron not recommend this configuration? Or have a sacrificial SLA?
Current SLA start is 10yrs old! Charged via ACR.
All components on hand but Argofet vs Orion has my brain in irons.

Given that you have an MC614 controlling your alternator, you can directly charge your LFP batteries off your alternator. You will need to change the settings on the MC614 to something more condusive to Lithium charging, but it will work. You then just maintain the starter battery with something like an 18A Orion-Tr, which is more than suited for the task.

The one thing you’ll want to do is ensure that whatever BMS you select has a control line on it that can disable the MC614 if the BMS decides to disconnect the battery from the system.

This is basically what I have going on my boat, though I’m running a Wakespeed regulator rather than the Balmar. With the new firmware, the wakespeed has full monitoring on my victron setup, and it also gets its directives from my BMS in terms of target voltage/current. It will even go into zero (battery) current mode when the battery is full so the alternator is just powering my house loads.

[lateral]

I'm jealous.
Nah, my BMS's are JBD 200A & pretty sure they don't have external comms.
I do have the victron BMV712 that can provide control before BMS switches via OV relay. Not quite sure how thats going to work as 712 is total voltage, BMS is per cell.
But then I'm 4S2P, so two BMS's of which it is unlikely both will trip leaving half the bank.
And an audible alarm for me to manually kill fields at ign.
I know a couple of instances with LFP fitted without even BMS here. Must re-read the specs on what I have bought.