Balmar SG-200 Battery Monitor

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by lateral

My factory capacity was 464Ahrs.

Each vendor of quality deep cycling batts should have their endAmps spec available in the manual or data sheet.

If not, then the standard for lead is .005C, but that is very high SoC, in your case 2.3A, and as they wear, 0.01C or say 5A is more realistic.

Your SG200 is not actually **controlling** the charge process right?

Just monitoring, so if **the charger** is successfully getting to that 5A point in a reasonable time, you might want to set the SG200 to display 100% when the current tapers to say .02C, call it 9A.


> the taper current recommended by Balmar

I believe that's just a default, not a reco.

Accuracy requires changing settings from the default. More so the more sophisticated the gear


You could of course choose to set it to the exact same endAmps as you want your charger to achieve, but unless that is tied into your BM, it will use AHT, so sometimes be higher, sometimes be lower depending on conditions, active loads etc.

Which is fine, as long as you get "pretty close" at least a few times a week. If possible, for good longevity.

[lateral]

"Your SG200 is not actually **controlling** the charge process right?"

Right.

Balmar default for my setup was 9.5A.
Perkeurts= 1.3

They recommend to incrementally increasing TC until achieving charge termination "+"
as suits your mode of use.

[JmanC]

I have some questions.
I noticed when the power is cut/ battery turned off and back on later on that the saved pwr save settings are not remembered. Its always back on default.
Will this be fixed and savable with a bluetooth update?

If the AGM is not a true deep cycle but a hybrid.
What should be choosen, AGM or dual purpose lead acid?


The LV fault for LFP is 13V. Isnt this way to high? Li can go down to 12V under load or even lower right?


Say after 3 or 6 or even 12months of battery inactivity in storage, is a few cycles all thats needed for accuracy again? Or should a factory reset be performed?

Finally i dont understand when charge voltage setting would have to be manually changed? Is it required when charger goes into float to early or holds absorption V too long?

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by lateral

I think the last paragraph is accurate. You decide what 100% soc is and charge termination "+" point.
That charge termination is confusing as it has no control of the charger.
If you charge to inputted taper current, gauge will always show 100%.
Even if it isn't technically 100%.
SOH will continue downward of course.
How I understand it. At this pt.

The SoC reflects the percentage of the current capacity of the battery that is available. If a 100 Ah battery now has 80 Ah capacity, when "Charge V" < the voltage measured during charging, and "Taper Curr" > charge acceptance during charging, then the battery is at 100% SoC, even though it's actual capacity is now 80 Ah. However, SoH would measure 80% in this example. The two measures together give a fuller picture of the battery.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by JmanC

I have some questions.
I noticed when the power is cut/ battery turned off and back on later on that the saved pwr save settings are not remembered. Its always back on default.
Will this be fixed and savable with a bluetooth update?

It would appear you have the device wired incorrectly. I believe it should always have a + voltage source, which is why they supplied a fused line for that. My assumption is that the settings are stored in volatile memory, which is why constant power is required, but Balmar can confirm this.

Originally Posted by JmanC

If the AGM is not a true deep cycle but a hybrid.
What should be choosen, AGM or dual purpose lead acid?

Beats me. Sounds like a good question for Balmar.

Originally Posted by JmanC

The LV fault for LFP is 13V. Isnt this way to high? Li can go down to 12V under load or even lower right?

I think that some of the defaults may not be optimal, but they can be changed. And yes, 13 v is too high for the LV alert. The adjustment to Charge V and Taper Curr may be needed to trigger a 100% SoC, as described above.

Originally Posted by JmanC

Say after 3 or 6 or even 12months of battery inactivity in storage, is a few cycles all thats needed for accuracy again? Or should a factory reset be performed?

I'll defer to Balmar, but my understanding is that the answer is no, the "learning" the device attains doesn't go away, as long as power is supplied to the device.

Originally Posted by JmanC

Finally i dont understand when charge voltage setting would have to be manually changed? Is it required when charger goes into float to early or holds absorption V too long?

You would change it if you never reached 100% SoC. For example, if Charge V was set at 18 volts, and you never reached 18 volts (hope you don't), then you would never get to 100% SoC.


Happy to have any misconceptions of my own corrected....

[lateral]

Originally Posted by Delfin

The SoC reflects the percentage of the current capacity of the battery that is available. If a 100 Ah battery now has 80 Ah capacity, when "Charge V" < the voltage measured during charging, and "Taper Curr" > charge acceptance during charging, then the battery is at 100% SoC, even though it's actual capacity is now 80 Ah. However, SoH would measure 80% in this example. The two measures together give a fuller picture of the battery.

Agreed, except your "100%" is not realising it's full potential because of your user defined high taper current. Why I said it's user defined with the top limit being when the battery won't accept anymore the gauge not seeing 100% because taper current set too low etc. Semantics, I guess.
Gauge capacity versus potential battery capacity, which can be increased by various means, maintenance being one.
Happy to be corrected too. I didn't read the manual until late in the piece.
So far great piece of kit for the not-so-lucid like me.

[witzgall]

1. Setting are stored in persistent memory, but it is not saved there instantaneously, only every so many minutes. You should have the SG200 powered up at all times, except when the boat is put into storage.
2. Learning stays (See #1 above, same thing), and if the battery condition is the same as when disconnected, but discharged somewhat, the SoC will adjust accordingly. You need to make sure there are not loads on the batteries while the SG200 is powered up and perhaps the 1st minute or so.
3. We will be making some changes to the faults values (not user editable) for some of the chemistries in a later release. You can always change the alerts (User editable) values to whatever you need.

Chris

Originally Posted by Delfin

It would appear you have the device wired incorrectly. I believe it should always have a + voltage source, which is why they supplied a fused line for that. My assumption is that the settings are stored in volatile memory, which is why constant power is required, but Balmar can confirm this.

Beats me. Sounds like a good question for Balmar.


I think that some of the defaults may not be optimal, but they can be changed. And yes, 13 v is too high for the LV alert. The adjustment to Charge V and Taper Curr may be needed to trigger a 100% SoC, as described above.



I'll defer to Balmar, but my understanding is that the answer is no, the "learning" the device attains doesn't go away, as long as power is supplied to the device.

You would change it if you never reached 100% SoC. For example, if Charge V was set at 18 volts, and you never reached 18 volts (hope you don't), then you would never get to 100% SoC.


Happy to have any misconceptions of my own corrected....

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by witzgall

1. Setting are stored in persistent memory, but it is not saved there instantaneously, only every so many minutes. You should have the SG200 powered up at all times, except when the boat is put into storage.
2. Learning stays (See #1 above, same thing), and if the battery condition is the same as when disconnected, but discharged somewhat, the SoC will adjust accordingly. You need to make sure there are not loads on the batteries while the SG200 is powered up and perhaps the 1st minute or so.
3. We will be making some changes to the faults values (not user editable) for some of the chemistries in a later release. You can always change the alerts (User editable) values to whatever you need.

Chris

Thanks Chris.

[JmanC]

Originally Posted by Delfin

I think that some of the defaults may not be optimal, but they can be changed. And yes, 13 v is too high for the LV alert. The adjustment to Charge V and Taper Curr may be needed to trigger a 100% SoC, as described

Thanks Delfin,
There is no way i can see how to change faults, what happens when a fault is triggered? An annoying pop up message? My faults are not showing up, eg. HV of 15V does not trigger anything.

Originally Posted by Delfin

You would change it if you never reached 100% SoC. For example, if Charge V was set at 18 volts, and you never reached 18 volts (hope you don't), then you would never get to 100% SoC.

What if my sterling charger goes into float at only 95%soc?
After that it reads 3.5hours left. What should i do? Still confused to be honest.

[JmanC]

Originally Posted by witzgall

1. Setting are stored in persistent memory, but it is not saved there instantaneously, only every so many minutes. You should have the SG200 powered up at all times, except when the boat is put into storage.
2. Learning stays (See #1 above, same thing), and if the battery condition is the same as when disconnected, but discharged somewhat, the SoC will adjust accordingly. You need to make sure there are not loads on the batteries while the SG200 is powered up and perhaps the 1st minute or so.
3. We will be making some changes to the faults values (not user editable) for some of the chemistries in a later release. You can always change the alerts (User editable) values to whatever you need.

Chris

Thanks
I have an issue not getting a SOH calcuation to show after 3cycles. The very 1st use after 2 cycles it read 100% which sounds to high as my AGM is a few years old.
But after a factory reset and re set battery type and capacity its been 3 deep cycles and its not showing any soh.
I started out fully charged, connected the sg200, waited a minute or so then ran a C/20 load until around 55% soc. Charged back up at 0.2C and kept on float for a few hours, as the battery charger goes into float around mid 90s% soc. The next 2 cycles i repeated but discharged at C/8 to speed things up. But still no soh.
I do see the + sign on my 100% soc, for example on second cycle when batt charger went to float early at mid 90%, I kept on float for an hour or two and came back and the gauge showe 100% soc with + sign.

Is there anything i could try or anything obvious as to why no soh?

Thanks

[Peeew]

I found the Balmar tech phone people very helpful

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Peeew

I found the Balmar tech phone people very helpful

Second that ^^^^^. If the initial contact can't answer your question or solve your problem they have great follow up with the engineering staff.

No matter what, you are far, far more likely to get a useful answer from Balmar than from here since NOBODY here knows exactly how these things work (no matter what they think!)

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by JmanC

What if my sterling charger goes into float at only 95%soc?

Reboot it and it will give another cycle of minimum Absorb Hold time.

Going past endAmps for a while won't hurt anything.

Not nearly as much as always falling short does anyway.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Reboot it and it will give another cycle of minimum Absorb Hold time.

Going past endAmps for a while won't hurt anything.

Not nearly as much as always falling short does anyway.

Yep, been doing that since installing my sterling/pronautic four years ago. Gets me closer to mythical 0.01C.
Also I'd wager the SG200 uses tail current for soc and voltage for alarms/alerts. Would make more sense.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by JmanC

Thanks Delfin,
What if my sterling charger goes into float at only 95%soc?
After that it reads 3.5hours left. What should i do? Still confused to be honest.

The SG200 doesn't control your charger and you have to read the manual context right to understand that once the SG200 reaches charge "termination" point that YOU have set on the gauge YOU have to turn the charger off. But, as John said a little charge over the "set" point will not hurt the battery but it may stuff up the gauges history/learning.
How I see it at this point. On third cycle. Numbers looking what I would expect.
Happy to be corrected.