Balmar SG-200 Battery Monitor

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes their claim is that problem is gone.

Which could just be the AH counter.

And for that to work well, at least occasional 100% resets would be required.

Which the AIC (SG1 style) side could handle automatically, as long as charging actually goes that high.

Or a quiescent period would perhaps allow the AIC to re-calibrate the AHC (AH counting) side's SoC at less than Full.

Combining both technologies this way, letting best-of-both-worlds each inform the other, certainly holds a lot of promise!

If that is the case I am super excited to see it in action. The more accurate information you can have in the simplest form is very intriguing and user friendly

[a64pilot]

To get to 100% SOC, I need to return it seems about 105% to 107% of the AH removed, however as soon as I return 100%, My AH counting monitor resets to 100% SOC.
You can see how it would certainly walk down a little each day and indicate a higher SOC than actual if it weren’t often reset.
Assumption is of course the SG algorithm dampens that with this one?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

To get to 100% SOC, I need to return it seems about 105% to 107% of the AH removed, however as soon as I return 100%, My AH counting monitor resets to 100% SOC.
You can see how it would certainly walk down a little each day and indicate a higher SOC than actual if it weren’t often reset.
Assumption is of course the SG algorithm dampens that with this one?

Not sure what battery monitor you are using, but even my decades old Link 10 is sophisticated enough to not count 100% of charge amps as getting into the bank. In other words it estimates charge efficiency.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Not sure what battery monitor you are using, but even my decades old Link 10 is sophisticated enough to not count 100% of charge amps as getting into the bank. In other words it estimates charge efficiency.

I imagine if I looked into it, it’s probably adjustable.
It’s however now in “automatic” and seeing as how I always get to a real 100% SOC twice a week, it resets itself then, or I believe it does, cause it tracks right along with the SG.
However if I didn’t very often charge to a real 100% SOC, I assume it would stray further and further from actual SOC.

I just use it to see what my consumption is in AH, and use the SG reading first thing in the morning to see what my SOC really is.
The two together tell me if I need to equalize, and or what my banks capacity really is.
So therefore I haven’t bothered in trying to see if I can adjust the AH counter monitor.

I just looked, I can set charge efficiency, however I don’t know what to set it to?
Maybe start at 95% and see what happens? Or leave in auto?

[ontherocks83]

A64 what type of batteries do you have?

[a64pilot]

Lifeline

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

To get to 100% SOC, I need to return it seems about 105% to 107% of the AH removed, however as soon as I return 100%, My AH counting monitor resets to 100% SOC.
You can see how it would certainly walk down a little each day and indicate a higher SOC than actual if it weren’t often reset.
Assumption is of course the SG algorithm dampens that with this one?

Presumably.

Every AH counting meter requires (for accuracy) pretty frequent reset of 100% level.

Usually needs doing manually, few setups can rely on this being automated.

That would be a great step forward.

IMO that 100% definition - using the trailing amps taper - needs to be user-definable.

[john61ct]

Charge Efficiency is one of those factors that you should tweak yourself until the meter holds its accuracy as well as possible between manual resets.

Yes you can call Concorde TS and ask, but
in fact CEF varies by current rate, SoC and charging stage.

So try between say .75 and .95 until you find what works best for your rig and usage patterns.

[ayates]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Incorrect, the SG200 is setup for a 2" Diameter mounting hole.

Sorry, I meant the "standard" 2 1/8".


Allan.

[john61ct]

And yes some meters self-determine CEF.

And some ignore it completely 8-)

[witzgall]

All of this is interesting conversation. The SG200 does alot of things differently than traditional shunt based monitors. We don't have a Charge Efficiency factor. it does not use Peukert in SoC Calculations, only for Time Remaining calcs.

It does synchronize to 100% when you reach a set voltage and taper current (Both configurable, with defaults for each chemistry) Synchronization has everything to do with our State of Health calcs, but is not required to eliminate Synchronization drift due to PSOC charging. If it resets to 100% prematurely and the battery did not in fact fully charge, this will be reflected in the SoC after a short time (once the batteries have been learned.)

Chris

[john61ct]

Look forward to checking it out, sounds very promising

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I definitely agree that having both a smart gauge and a AH counter can be beneficial, but my reasoning is that you can use the AH counter to track how many Ah's you are using during a 24 hour cycle to be able to adjust your usage as needed or help determine if you have an appropriate sized battery bank for the type of cruising you are doing.

Based on building a reliable electrical system, this approach seems backwards to me.


The first thing to do is an energy budget. That is used to determine your house bank size, but only YOU can determine that not based on how you cruise, but rather what equipment you have to recharge the house bank AND how many days between charging you can go. For example, I have a nominal 400 ah house bank, and use 100+ AH per day. That gives me, at most, two nights at anchor without recharging before I hit the 50% level. I don't have solar, and cruise locally, so it's either the alternator or shorepower.


Most of us who bought coulomb counters learned two things very quickly:

1. What goes OUT is linear: amps times hours And most of us find our budgets have been confirmed by the counters. If you are way off, something is wrong in your budget or your system - eek, someone left all the non-LED lights on all night again!

Really:
Record of Daily Energy Use of 100 ah per day:
"Breaking In" New Wet Cell Batteries



2. What goes back IN is NOT, because of everything we've learned about how batteries get charged.


#2 is where counters really shine, because you can see the input amps and remaining ahs.


If you wait to buy a counter, a SG or this new gadget to do what you propose, you will not have started the process with a design criteria for how you plan to run and use your boat. And unless you do this very first step, this new SG isn't going to help at all in the way you presented your approach.


Waiting for this gadget to size your house bank is putting the cart before the horse.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Based on building a reliable electrical system, this approach seems backwards to me.


The first thing to do is an energy budget. That is used to determine your house bank size, but only YOU can determine that not based on how you cruise, but rather what equipment you have to recharge the house bank AND how many days between charging you can go. For example, I have a nominal 400 ah house bank, and use 100+ AH per day. That gives me, at most, two nights at anchor without recharging before I hit the 50% level. I don't have solar, and cruise locally, so it's either the alternator or shorepower.


Most of us who bought coulomb counters learned two things very quickly:

1. What goes OUT is linear: amps times hours And most of us find our budgets have been confirmed by the counters. If you are way off, something is wrong in your budget or your system - eek, someone left all the non-LED lights on all night again!

Really:
Record of Daily Energy Use of 100 ah per day:
"Breaking In" New Wet Cell Batteries



2. What goes back IN is NOT, because of everything we've learned about how batteries get charged.


#2 is where counters really shine, because you can see the input amps and remaining ahs.


If you wait to buy a counter, a SG or this new gadget to do what you propose, you will not have started the process with a design criteria for how you plan to run and use your boat. And unless you do this very first step, this new SG isn't going to help at all in the way you presented your approach.


Waiting for this gadget to size your house bank is putting the cart before the horse.

I can't fault what you are saying, and I agree that I would have the budget figured out previously, what I also take into consideration is sometimes things change and I want to be able to see those changes that I know are coming. Eventually going from coastal to long range cruising is going to change your consumption along with crew size changes, children and most importantly things that go wrong like parasitic draws that creep up that you are unaware of.

[john61ct]

The key is being able to reduce consumption, to minimize need for inputs

An accurate SoC helps manage these factors

and oversizing the bank helps a lot, especially for mostly-solar in varying conditions.

Without the SoC visibility, then a bank can be "too big", but with it, just helps it last longer.