Balmar SG-200 Battery Monitor

[djs]

Originally Posted by witzgall

If you set the taper current lower, it will potentially reach charge termination BEFORE it gets to float, the opposite of what you suggest.

Chris

Hi Chris
I need some help understanding this. I thought that for the device to determine 100% charge had been reached, the device had to detect that both the battery voltage had reached the charge voltage determined AND that the current accepted by the batteries had reduced to the taper current value set.

So if the taper current is set lower, I thought it would take longer to show 100% reached.

Maybe I’m fundamentally misunderstanding how the sg200 works but I’d like to understand.

Thanks
Dave

[witzgall]

Oh boy, guess I eat crow - I misread your message. Yes, if you set it lower, it will reach charge termination earlier. Even though I read and even re-typed "Lower" I was thinking "Higher." Duh.



You are correct.

The measured voltage has to exceed the Charge Voltage setting, and the measured current has to fall below the taper current setting.

Chris

Originally Posted by djs

Hi Chris
I need some help understanding this. I thought that for the device to determine 100% charge had been reached, the device had to detect that both the battery voltage had reached the charge voltage determined AND that the current accepted by the batteries had reduced to the taper current value set.

So if the taper current is set lower, I thought it would take longer to show 100% reached.

Maybe I’m fundamentally misunderstanding how the sg200 works but I’d like to understand.

Thanks
Dave

[lateral]

I don't understand what charge termination is? For the SG200 algorithm?
You mean the theoretical termination?
I terminate the charge manually when the taper current reaches
1%C amps. (Not yet sure what to set the SG200, probably 2 %C but keep charging until I reach 1%. I've tried several settings)

Therefore, the SG200 will reach charge termination, 100% SOC, before I terminate absorbtion phase charging and switch to float.

Now here's what I'm thinking. I have to cycle my regulator because it only has
1hr absorbtion. So every time I reset for another hr, after momentarily switching to float, is that regarded as another cycle and screwing up the SG calculation?
Or, have i got this all wrong?

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by lateral

I don't understand what charge termination is? .....

It is clear from this bloated thread thread a very large number off users do not understand a lot of what is written in the manual.

Charge Termination is not properly or clearly explained in there by Balmar:

Charge Termination is defined as when the battery is fully up to 100% of it’s present capacity.

This is very confusing and suggests that the State of Capacity is up to 100%. So are people understanding SoC as 'State of Capacity' and State of Health (SoH) as fully being charged????? These two terms need better explanation in the manual.

Charge Termination should be more simply defined as:

...when the battery is 100% fully charged. ............capacity has nothing to do with this figure, it can be down at 50% of its original capacity due to age, but the remaining 50% capacity can still be fully charged - it just won't last as long under load.

Charge Termination is verified when the + sign comes on which in reality means that the Absorption phase of the charger has finished and the charger has dropped to Float mode. But if the + sign never appears on the gauge then probably the installation instructions in the manual haven't been properly followed - the battery chemistry and the battery capacity have not been entered correctly. Or if the battery charger - which is not controlled by the SG-200 - drops down to float too early then the batteries may never reach 100% SoC depending on the type and charging capacity of the charger. If all loads are switched off the battery will eventually reached 100% Soc and the + sign should appear.

The original SmartGauge sold by Balmar is such a simple device that only needs to be told the battery chemistry - is it FLA or AGM or Gel etc., etc.. for the SoC to work properly.

Adding a shunt to give the SoH has seriously complicated the installation and it would seem the operation of the SG-200. Many of the 'problems' on here could be down to three things:

1. Misunderstanding the manual.

2. Wiring of the shunt incorrectly - or adding extra loads or chargers incorrectly at a later date.

3. Programming the SG-200 incorrectly.

I refer all readers to MainSail's website - who is testing the SG 200 for Balmar - where his thread on installing shunt-based Battery Monitors states:

About 90% of Ah Counters I come across are NOT properly installed & wired.

About 98% of Ah counters I come across are NOT properly calibrated/programmed.

[berwick]

Perhaps somebody has an idea about my SG200 issue. My MPPT solar controller is set for Absorb 14.82V and float at 13.5V. I then set the charge voltage on the SG200 for 14.62V and taper current for 13.5A (450 AH battery bank- 3%) as per Balmar help. I always seem to have 100% SOC with the + sign and 100% of SOH, I even brought the voltage down to 12.33V which should be around 30% discharge but it still shows 100% (with +) SOC and 100% SOH. Today I pulled the fuse for 5 minutes and when put back in the SOC showed 98% and SOH at 100%. Within 45 minutes with solar running the SOC was 100 + even though the voltage was only 14.2 (the solar charger was still in bulk too) and the current was 18-20 amps (but may have gone lower with the clouds) Supposedly both the voltage needs to go the 14.62V and the current has to be below the 13.5A to trigger the Charge Termination (+ sign) and that came way to early, I think I need to get this fixed before the SOH can work. Any ideas why the charge termination is off and how to fix???

thank you, Richard

[lateral]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

It is clear from this bloated thread thread a very large number off users do not understand a lot of what is written in the manual.

Charge Termination is not properly or clearly explained in there by Balmar:

[I]Charge Termination is defined as when the battery is fully up to 100% of it’s present capacity.[/I]?

This is very confusing and suggests that the State of Capacity is up to 100%. So are people understanding SoC as 'State of Capacity' and State of Health (SoH) as fully being charged????? These two terms need better explanation in the manual.

Charge Termination should be more simply defined as:

...when the battery is 100% fully charged. ............capacity has nothing to do with this figure, it can be down at 50% of its original capacity due to age, but the remaining 50% capacity can still be fully charged - it just won't last as long under load.

Charge Termination is verified when the + sign comes on which in reality means that the Absorption phase of the charger has finished and the charger has dropped to Float mode. But if the + sign never appears on the gauge then probably the installation instructions in the manual haven't been properly followed - the battery chemistry and the battery capacity have not been entered correctly. Or if the battery charger - which is not controlled by the SG-200 - drops down to float too early then the batteries may never reach 100% SoC depending on the type and charging capacity of the charger. If all loads are switched off the battery will eventually reached 100% Soc and the + sign should appear.

The original SmartGauge sold by Balmar is such a simple device that only needs to be told the battery chemistry - is it FLA or AGM or Gel etc., etc.. for the SoC to work properly.

Adding a shunt to give the SoH has seriously complicated the installation and it would seem the operation of the SG-200. Many of the 'problems' on here could be down to three things:

1. Misunderstanding the manual.

2. Wiring of the shunt incorrectly - or adding extra loads or chargers incorrectly at a later date.

3. Programming the SG-200 incorrectly.

I refer all readers to MainSail's website - who is testing the SG 200 for Balmar - where his thread on installing shunt-based Battery Monitors states:

About 90% of Ah Counters I come across are NOT properly installed & wired.

About 98% of Ah counters I come across are NOT properly calibrated/programmed.

1.Charge Termination is defined as when the battery is fully up to 100% of it’s present capacity.I Can accept that.

2. State of Capacity I thought SOC was state of charge of present capacity in percentage? SOH is your "state of capacity". Which declines with age. No?

3. Charge Termination is verified when the + sign comes on which in reality means that the Absorption phase of the charger has finished and the charger has dropped to Float mode.
Not from the way the manual is written. 100% SOC is reached on the SG200
when the configured taper current is reached and the + sign comes a little time after, some time before your batteries chemistry 0.01C taper current is reached. So, there is a discrepancy between the two hence my wanting a definition from Chris using term "charge termination".

I 'm not getting at anybody, I just want to understand the terminology here and find the best way to configure the device for my style of use.
In particular, what I asked earlier, regarding drop to float before charge termination occurs. Where charge termination is used the literal sense. ie 0.01C TC.
DOES it reset the SG200 to a new cycle and affect the calculations?
And if it does, there must be problems with broken cycles and intermittent charging from solar, wind generators, motoring etc.

[Peeew]

I definitely am o e of those that misunderstood some of the manual. The installation portion seemed to go well but once the updates started I had to do some resetting and obviously made some errors. With the help of this thread I now have a great working system. But I do still have questions. Looking forward to more info and updates as they develop.

[witzgall]

Yes, it is telling the software that 100% charge has been reached. It has no other significance. In practice it will not ever be timed so that the charge termination is recognized at precisely the same time as charger drops to float (Or stops charging). This kind of precision is not needed for the SG200 to perform well.

Concerning your regulator, if it is a Balmar Multi-charge, you can adjust that absorption time so you don't have to cycle. It is one of the first tweeks many users do to the stock program.

Starting and stopping your alternator charge should not have a negative effect on the SG200's performance.

Originally Posted by lateral

I don't understand what charge termination is? For the SG200 algorithm?
You mean the theoretical termination?
I terminate the charge manually when the taper current reaches
1%C amps. (Not yet sure what to set the SG200, probably 2 %C but keep charging until I reach 1%. I've tried several settings)

Therefore, the SG200 will reach charge termination, 100% SOC, before I terminate absorbtion phase charging and switch to float.

Now here's what I'm thinking. I have to cycle my regulator because it only has
1hr absorbtion. So every time I reset for another hr, after momentarily switching to float, is that regarded as another cycle and screwing up the SG calculation?
Or, have i got this all wrong?

[sailah]

My SG200 is working like a charm, very pleased with this firmware update. Came on the boat today to find a stuck bilge pump switch and batteries at 44%. Went on a motoring run to charge things up and sitting in cockpit the app was telling me I was stuffing 66A back into the bank.

Interestingly I finally went to 100% SOH. My batteries were new last year and I've always been at 90% SOH. Not sure why it finally decided I was worthy of 100% but I'll take it.

Lef the bilge pumps off and 80W solar should finish things off.

The app is much less buggy, I can finally reliably connect to it in the cockpit on my phone and see bank status.

I don't know if my previous frustrations were due to the bad cable but it seems ever since I fixed that by soldering the pins in the Deutsch connector, it all started working from there.

[sailah]

Would be really cool to connect the other plug on the gauge to some type of cellular module. I have a Nordic Semiconductor dev kit that has E-SIM cellular and has a ton of sensor options. Since my SG-200 is 'on' even when boat power is off, I could have Thingy91 read the battery status and send me an alert. Would have caught the battery drain a few days ago...

The Thingy91 also has BT, could even connect remotely to gateway like a phone and send the data right to my Balmar app...

https://www.nordicsemi.com/Software-...rdic-Thingy-91

[berwick]

Ok mine is getting closer to working now, in talking to Chris he had told me to reselect the battery chemistry even though it looks like it is set for FLA as I had done one of the firmware updates. I did that and it showed the battery capacity at 100AH instead of the 450AH which it is, fixed that and my SOC plus sign is coming on at the correct time now! The SOH now shows 2% for the last few days so hopefully it is just learning and I will give it time

Richard

[mnmpizza]

Ok, was hoping to install without issues... No joy.

Balmar Smartlink 1.5.1 iOS version

I’ve had my sg200 installedfor 6-mos. no issues, so thought I’d add the BT link.

My BT SG2-0300 has a 04-17-20 DC stamp on the back. I read and followed Chris’ letter which I got from this forum which instructed me to unplug the display and plug the BT dongle into that slot.

Once done I put the fuse back in and get the following messages on the app:
1. Device found
2. Starting network discovery
3. Waiting or gateway to initialize
4. Gateway not detected

This happens every time (got tired after the 5-6th time). Insertefinition of insanity...

So, I just went ahead and plugged the BT device into the back of the display. It immediately sees all 3 devices: Battery, Display, BT. But will not allow me to upgrade them because they are too old. Says only 1 device of old devices allowed while doing upgrades.

Which brings me full circle back to the beginning.

Now the display says: “No service available for this selected device.”

Any advice would be greatly appreciated from this group!

Shannon

[berwick]

Go back to thread #658, it is what I had to do

Richard

[mnmpizza]

Originally Posted by berwick

Go back to thread #658, it is what I had to do

Richard

Ok will do. Edit: those were the exact instructions I was using...

However, let me apologize as I have to admit I was pulling the fuse on the secondary bank (orange wire) instead of the red power wire on my house bank.

Once I started actually rebooting the device, everything started coming together [emoji6]

I left the boat wit all devices updated and online.

I’ll go ahead and read thru again, as I still have 1 big question: why doesn’t the display work when I’m connected with BT? I only see the data on my phone...?? Thanks, Shannon

[berwick]

When you use the BT the display should say that it won't display when hooked up to the App, you need to turn off the BT again for it to work, it's suposed to do that

Richard