Batteries without a battery box?

[ranger58sb]

Lots of new boats delivered with trays/hold downs/boots, used to be with FLAs though I dunno what's in vogue with those now.

I didn't notice anything special about the tray sizes in ours -- delivered new from the builder with FLAs in 2002. Maybe an inch deep, or maybe an inch and a half? Something like that...

Were it me, I'd have preferred a box in any case... but in the meantime I switched to AGMs for other reasons anyway. And never could find a single box that would have worked for the way our batteries were installed.

-Chris

[Dougtiff]

The queston was do the FLA batts. need to be in a box, NOT do they need to be secured, about AGM'S, they can be oriented anyway but upside down, i configured 600 amp hrs. of AGM'S in the bilge for a client, the boat had DEEP bilges, so i built a platform the AGM'S sat on, on there ends [straped down], just aft of the mast, moved the weight from the cockpit to said location, worked well.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by CharlieJ

@sailorboy1
No, the ABYC Standards do not require a battery box per se. What is required is a method to collect the electrolyte that is acid resistant. Unless the "trays" that are being discussed have a volume that has been calculated to capture all of the electrolyte from a burst FLA then they are not compliant. See the attachment.

As always, IYB.

My question was:

Does it say that sealed batteries DON"T. I feel people just "reason" around it but that sealed batteries have the same requirements.

[Jono as 2234]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

Secured: absolutely! Otherwise, the battery can become a loose cannon. If it will hurt hitting me on the head, it needs to be secured - is my basic rule. I can imagine a loose battery doing all sorts of damage in a knock-down. And everything needs to be secure even when the mast is pointed straight down (that includes encapsulated ballast and bilge covers).

People who think: "the cables will retain the battery" make me cringe!

So far as standards (ISO, ABYC) are concerned, those standards lag so far behind technologies that they may as well only apply to square-riggers. I had a surveyor ask why my well-secured lithium batteries weren't in boxes. I told him I left the boxes back in the 20th century.

Talk about 19 century, a few years some friends built a cruiser for use on the Hawkesbury. Before it would pass survey they had to install a bell of certain dimensions. Not commercially available so they had to have one cast specially at a grotesque cost

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by Danm1

Geico required a picture of my batteries secured in boxes before giving me insurance.

In the tug that I worked on the starting batteries (two on each side to have 24 volts) had to be in steel boxes and had to be shimmed all around to prevent movement and had to have a block of wood on top to prevent contacting the steel cover. The steel cover had to be bolted down. Now get this... the radio emergency batteries (2) in parallel 12 volts, and (2) for 24 volts for emergency lights were not allowed in the engine room and not in the passenger compartment, not the wheel house... so they were mounted on the roof top in a custom made steel box, vented and bolted down, box painted red, and labelled emergency batteries and locked to prevent theft... woof! go figure!

[kish]

A box is needed to contain spillage of battery acid. A battery may rupture if a fault develops. The box needs to be mechanically secured.
This is independent of movement due to wave action, a separate issue entirely and a suggestion of gimbals on a battery bank is naive .

This rupturing is possible due to a battery fault and if not contained will attack the fiberglass beneath.
For that reason a boat with FLA batteries should have sodium bicarbonate [baking soda] on board to neutralize an acid spillage.
Here is a picture of a battery that ruptured after spending 6 months on a unsuitable charger [not a trickle charger] over a winter lay up.
Most of the electrolyte was boiled off and when battery was placed on load it exploded, discharging its contents.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

My question was:

Does it say that sealed batteries DON"T. I feel people just "reason" around it but that sealed batteries have the same requirements.

Not all sealed batteries are AGM, there are or were “sealed” flooded batteries. AGM can’t leak if the walls are broken or busted, about the only way you could get any significant electrolyte is to crush one.
Spilled acid in a bilge with seawater isn’t really an issue, at least not so far as corrosion, but I believe it may form some chlorine gas?

Then you have boats like mine, the factory battery compartment is completely sealed fiberglass box, why would you want boxes, in the box?

Pretty sure fiberglass is impervious to electrolyte, May discolor the dye in Gelcoat though?
https://beetleplastics.com/storing-s...-construction/

[capt.rob]

if you can't find a proper box have you considered looking for a tupperware or similar storage container that fits your batteries? you will have to cut holes for wires and ventelation but it will work,also be sure to strap batteries in place so they don't shift and seal screw holes in box bottom.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I read a lot, and a lot of boating forums.


I have seen altogether too many photos of bulged battery cases to believe "...the boat will pretty much have to roll over or at the very least be knocked flat to spill acid..."

Please help me understand the correlation between bulging battery cases and the spilling of battery acid. I guess you’re postulating that bulging battery cases = cracked battery cases = leakage. I’m not sure that that is a logical pathway.

I’ve also seen a lot of bulged battery cases but very few (if any) that have cracked due to bulging. In fact, I’ve seen more knock-downs. But then I bow to your extensive reading and forum activity.

We all have to believe in something - I believe I’ll have another beer

[CharlieJ]

@sailorboy! #33
I attached the full ABYC section from E-10 dealing with installation of batteries to my Post #29.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Please help me understand the correlation between bulging battery cases and the spilling of battery acid. I guess you’re postulating that bulging battery cases = cracked battery cases = leakage. I’m not sure that that is a logical pathway.

I’ve also seen a lot of bulged battery cases but very few (if any) that have cracked due to bulging. In fact, I’ve seen more knock-downs. But then I bow to your extensive reading and forum activity.

We all have to believe in something - I believe I’ll have another beer

Bulging / concave sides are often normal, especially for a valve regulated battery, a non valve regulated battery it’s often from an over tightened hold down. For these it’s normal and should be ignored, but if it’s from excessive heat it shouldn’t be ignored, because of course batteries are not supposed to get so hot that they soften the case.
These are Aircraft Concorde batteries which are essentially identical to the Lifeline battery.

[benfairn]

Id go with lithium, fewer and smaller and lighter. no spillage ever.

[canman]

My horrific FLA saga would convince you to box em. Had mine in boxes but the box had a crack. Leaked a bit on my aluminum fuel tank. It leaked. Required a month of hard work ripping all the fine woodwork out to get the tank out and replaced. Then basically rebuilding all over again. I have. AGMs now

[sail4evr]

Hi, You won't pass a survey without battery boxes. No survey, no insurance. No insurance will be denied access to many marinas and boatyards. basically screwed

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by sail4evr

Hi, You won't pass a survey without battery boxes.

Don't think that's universally true. Boats like ours seldom have boxes -- just trays and hold-downs -- and pass surveys all the time.

-Chris