Battery Chargers

[hellosailor]

sailorboy, when you ask why chargers are all such fine pieces of outstanding engineering (ahem), remind us again of how and why you came to acquire just such a typical unsatisfactory POS instead of something better? And why you haven't chosen to replace it with something better?

Catch22?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

sailorboy, when you ask why chargers are all such fine pieces of outstanding engineering (ahem), remind us again of how and why you came to acquire just such a typical unsatisfactory POS instead of something better? And why you haven't chosen to replace it with something better?

Catch22?

Are you really interested or are you just looking to be ..........

It came with the boat when I got it 6.5 yeats ago
I didn't use it till late last year because I hadn't been connected to shorepower for 8 years (that's 2 boats worth of time). Now I have a generator so I use it some.
Why don't I replace it- because why would I have spent the $1500+ till maybe now. And even now it doesn't appear to be anywhere near a $1500 problem.

Finally if you aren't interested it anything other trash typing why are you bothering?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Or has it been like that from day 1?

Or are your batteries older and depleted to the point where they won't accept much more? (Which might mean your alternator would also maybe only push 30A@14.2VDC just now, too?)

-Chris

Wouldn't know if it worked better way back. Batteries are 8 months old and in excellent condition

Just FYI - this a rant thread I haven't asked anyone to solve my "problem". I don't really have a problem other than the design of battery chargers and this design issue appears to be common.

[hellosailor]

Not trash typing, just asking candidly why anyone would continue to question or protest when other folks say "The stuff is cheap and inadequate because sailors are too cheap or uninformed to buy good stuff".

That's one reason I said "acquired", because I had no idea if you bought it, or it came with an old boat. Apparently you have little need for it and as such, like most of the market, no great incentive to replace it with something better, which would be more costly. Which comes back to...the stuff is mediocre because that's what the market is willing to spend.

As so much stuff in so many mass markets is. Not just chargers, or boats.

[Kenomac]

On our Mastervolt chargers, they both reset and begin absorption mode again just by turning them off then on again.

[sailorboy1]

Having to trick things into working doesn't change that it is a poor design

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Having to trick things into working doesn't change that it is a poor design

Ours is working fine to charge our 6 year old battery bank, no need for tricks. The new 450w of Solar should keep it topped up with plenty of sunny days.

[sailorboy1]

Btw I think my charger is working as designed. I stopped the generator- charger when the battery acceptance got to about 30 amps. I then started the engine and the alternator did pretty much the same. So it appears that the batteries are in charge of it.

I also had read and believed that chargers should be sized at about 25% of battery AH capacity. But yesterday I came across a spec for Trojan T105 (I have these) and it says charger capacity 10-13%. I don't think I've ever seen more than about 16% of the AH capacity go into the batteries and always figured it was just because the batteries were still pretty well charged (greater than 80%)

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Ours is working fine to charge our 6 year old battery bank, no need for tricks. The new 450w of Solar should keep it topped up with plenty of sunny days.

Gee didn't you just have a big thread about how you didn't know how your system worked? Didn't you just post how you trick the system by cycling it?

Besides "working fine" isn't a measurement of use. I could say the same about my charger if I accept that 95% is fine.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

no, does it matter?

its a Freedom 2000

Yes, it DOES matter. BIGLY!!! I have a Freedom 15, pretty much the same unit. It's non-adjustable for voltage and uses essentially an egg timer for the different stages of charging. But Maine Sail has been describing this "behavior" for decades, and the link to the pbase description of the the ProMariner does it very well. Go read it. Then RTFM for your Freedom and you'll see.

Look, what you have is old, what I have is old (1998), I know it, but it works for me if properly managed. After 85% SOC battery acceptance controls, so I have difficulty with your 6.3A vs 70A comparison.

Your rant, however, is very true. VERY. BIGLY.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

sailorboy, when you ask why chargers are all such fine pieces of outstanding engineering (ahem), remind us again of how and why you came to acquire just such a typical unsatisfactory POS instead of something better? And why you haven't chosen to replace it with something better?

Catch22?

It's old, like mine, but still works and has a big inverter. He already answered your question: a replacement is BIG bucks.

Can't have it both ways, though.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Wouldn't know if it worked better way back. Batteries are 8 months old and in excellent condition

Just FYI - this a rant thread I haven't asked anyone to solve my "problem". I don't really have a problem other than the design of battery chargers and this design issue appears to be common.

Realize rant. Go for it.

My questions were more about whether your charger is actually representative of all chargers. Sounds like it's not really.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

On our Mastervolt chargers, they both reset and begin absorption mode again just by turning them off then on again.

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Having to trick things into working doesn't change that it is a poor design

Don't know that I'd consider it a "trick." I said earlier, our older charger (different brand) works that way too. The design allows for up to 4 hours absorption, with a 40-amp charger. Designers gotta start/stop somewhere. I suspect in this instance the design parameters maybe centered around how large a bank a typical user might be expected to service with a 40-amp charger... followed by some guesswork about how long a 40-amp charger should push amps to a bank that size... with some additional guesswork about how best to avoid overcharging, given there are human users involved in the set-up, battery purchase, battery maintenance (or not)... and so forth. The manual happens to also say to turn it off and then back on again if batteries are not sufficiently charged by the first cycle.

Not at all defending our charger, his charger, your charger... just peeling an onion...

-Chris

[sailorboy1]

Glad I'm helping some people have something to post on (you know which ones you are). I especially love the ones that tell me what I already said, but getting to use their insults doing it.

Btw I know how to fix my charger programming problem, but the fix sn't available anymore so I will need to determine if the new" fix will work with an old charger

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Not sure which ones

​ProMariner ProNautic P and Sterling ProCharge Ultra both have "custom" setpoint options beyond the canned profiles.

The full manuals are available online to verify, and both are pretty responsive to support questions.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Besides the settings issue I can not believe how poor and inefficient my charger is. Right now it is using 6.3A @ 110V AC to supply the batteries with 30A @ 14.2V DC. That's terrible!! It's a 100 amp charger and should put out more than this as right now the batteries are only 85% charged. If I run the engine the alternator will put in 70 amps, which means that for the same Amp-hr in the engine-alternator is a more efficient charge source than the battery charger-generator combination. The charger should be doing more!

Once that SoC is reached, you pass the Bulk CC stage and enter CV, the Amps absorbed at a given voltage is no longer determined by the charge source but by the batteries' resistance, in turn by their chemistry.

As they fill further, the amps go down, simple physics, no way to "push" current in faster, except by raising voltage, which can be harmful.

The last 15% can take much longer than the bulk stage from 50% (empty) to 85%.

Which is why a low-amp source like solar is perfect, silly to burn dino juice for the last 3-5 hours.

How are you measuring current amps going into your bank?

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Having to trick things into working doesn't change that it is a poor design

Their primary criterion is to not take chances of overcharging, causing liability.

Taking optimal care for bank longevity is a challenge for the user to take on, very much the exception out of the box.

Customizable settings to conform to **that particular** bank' mfg specs is IMO the only way to go.

Especially since banks are a consumable, and the next set you buy may have wildly different requirements.