Choosing a Generator??

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Personally I’d choose the Pagura over the panda. I’ve found the Fisher panda to be cantankerous

Absolutely. Over the years I have read more complaints and more unsolvable problems with Fisher Panda generators than any other one marine device.

If the boat has the room and can carry the weight I see more recommendations for Northern Lights generators as the best. Most reliable, quite, long lasting, etc. Don't know anything about the Pagura and not sure if Northern Lights is a viable option in Europe.

[rslifkin]

If you're looking for light weight, it looks like the 4.5kw Phasor is just under 300 lbs. I'm pretty sure that's the lightest 1800 RPM unit you'll find. Heavier than the small NexGen units, but still fairly light.

[Simi 60]

3 Cyl Kubota
That is all

[Dieseldude]

No advice on specific brands. I did look after a larger Northern Lights and it seems to be quite tough. Technical support at Alaska Diesel were very helpful to get me schematics to solve a problem. Can't say enough good things about those guys. A marine generator will run for long periods, so I would go with a low RPM machine of 1800 RPM, not a high speed 3600 RPM screamer. Low revving machines are inclined to last longer, and will run quieter. They will be more expensive, larger, and heavier though for a given power output. But this is a major investment that you will be living with for a long time. The simpler a generator, the better. I would go with one that has the least degree of electronic controls possible. If your vessel is older and has lax emission requirements, an overhauled older generator might simplify things. Electronic sensors and circuit boards on modern generators add to future repair issues and costs.



Assessing load is the big consideration. How many things do you really need to run at once ? If an electric stove and laundry drier are aboard, do you really need to run both at once ? You can economize by managing your load intelligently. Beside steady load capacity, one must consider transient loads when inductive loads such as those with motors and large transformers switch on. If you have not converted to LED lighting, this can reduce your load quite a bit. If fitting a generator aboard a vessel that had never had one, renewal and upgrade of AC wiring and breaker panel is an added expense and work that might not be initially considered, but needs to be planned.


Of course fuel capacity is a big consideration. Does your vessel have room for an auxiliary fuel tank ? It could be a big expense and a lot of work to fit a tank, plus the piping and valves, and tank vent. Of course just tapping off the existing fuel tank is possible, but this will cut down on running hours between fuel bunkering. Then there is air supply. Does the space you are planning to use have sufficient air supply, or will venting need to be fitted ?


Stocking and storing spares is another consideration. Even basics like filters and lube oil will consume space aboard a small vessel, and of course require a budget.


Like any modification, there is always more to it than might meet the eye in engineering, expenses, and work. A boat is a hole in the water into which one pours money.


Have fun with your project.

[RELENTLESS 1]

FWIW. We recently installed a Integrel Generator - https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...alder+integral We also upgraded to Victron Lithiums and Inverter. We have induction stove, convection microwave oven, dishwasher, washing machine and watermaker. This Integrel is AMAZING. One example: we left Baltimore with 50% Battery level - so down about 650 Amps. Watching the Output meter we were putting in over 6KW while motoring and the batteries were at 100% in a little over 2 hours as we made 6.5 kts towards Annapolis. We will do a 'at anchor' test soon, but so far very impressive with no weight penalty, no second motor.....

[Dieseldude]

In integral generator is great, offering fantastic efficiency. But the main engine must run to use it. When at anchor and in port, an auxiliary has its place. an optimum system would have both, but of course at vastly higher cost.

[R Hutcheson]

A few things to consider. For background, I have a Fischer Panda 12kw. I would greatly prefer a Northern Lights for sound levels, ease of repair, and reliability. When it is time to replace the existing unit, I will most likely go with a smaller Northern Lights if I can make it fit the space. My wife insisted on a Washer/Dryer as well as a dishwasher. We have a watermaker as well. However, we rarely run either the Washer/Dryer or the dishwasher unless we are plugged in to power. The cycles for both units are fairly long. This means long runs of the generator to complete the cycles. If it's hot and humid enough to justify running the air all night, this is not a problem, but it's pretty wasteful to run the generator for only one or both of these units. We have been on the US East Coast due to the pandemic restrictions. The water is not that clean. Therefore, we don't use the water maker to avoid constantly clogging the filters. Pickling and unpickling the water maker is enough of a chore, as well as the cost of the agent, to deter us from placing it in service. If you're in fairly clean water, this may not apply. Since we are not replacing the water used with the water maker, the amount of water the units use becomes an issue. Basically we only use the Washer/Dryer and Dishwasher when plugged in at the dock. The dock laundry is usually more convenient than the one on board. My wife does love her dishwasher however. So, if you are not in clean water, and you aren't planning on using the generator for air conditioning, I'd just skip it.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Colin Oslo

Again thanks for commemts - appreciated as this is unknown territory!



Currently we have a Victron Combiplus 2000V 50 amp (2000V may be on the low side?



lithium would be ideal, but we have new agm batt bank (390ah/24v).



But isnt one of the problems with generators that they are not run sufficiently/not loaded enough?

(Thus assuming it would be good to run an induction cooker directly off 230V - like gn-espace induction; Connected load: 4.9kW 230v/50-60hz dual frequency ? )

The problem with squeezing a new generator into a boat, is not so much weight, but easy access for daily inspection, maintenance and repairs.

Also, these lightweight Gens do not last well as others have noted. My Northern Lights has been reliable.

Perhaps another approach could be to increase your main engines 24v Alternator system for high capacity charging at idle.

This one puts out 24vdc 70amp AT IDLE .....the same as a the Victron 3000/70/24 MULTI would do if plugged in to shore power at dock.

https://markgrasser.com/?product=24v...mote-rectifier

Along with a large case Alternator, add capacity to your existing house bank, so you mostly need to Bulk charge between 60 to 80% SOC while you still have AGMs.

If wanting induction, then also up-sizing to Multi 3kw Inverter would be enough

This way, you avoid a Generator instalation and motorsailing for short periods, recharges the house bank without having large solar capacity.

If cruising in Norway, I would rather reserve that space for a hydronic heating system for cabin and shower water

https://itrheat.com/wp-content/uploa...v-Feb-2011.pdf

https://www.pysystems.ca/resources/t...ating-systems/

[Nineteen]

Originally Posted by ilenart

Have recently installed a Whisperpower Piccolo 5 120v, which runs the watermaker and charger simultaneously at about 75% capacity. Just finished an hours run, which also heated up the hot water. Was a bit painful to get installed, which was mostly due to the local distributer not being experienced. But since the start of our trip for the last month has run every 2 to 5 days no problem.

Ilenart

I also have a Piccolo 5 in our Catalina 380. Its a great unit and will happily run underway at up to 25 degrees heel.
They are oil cooled as well so no coolant changes. Oil change is about 2L and all servicing is done from the one side.
The support in Australia and NZ has been good.
I installed it myself per their manual.
Cheers
Tom

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by Colin Oslo

Hi all,
Well we are in November and up in Norway....and considering winter projects.

We are considering to install a generator ( to run a water maker (not installed yet) a washing machine/ heating the hot water/ charging batteries - perhaps cut out the gas and install an induction cooker.

Is this a very old fashioned approach ? (we are not too keen on dressing up the boat with solars).

We are considering a Fisher Panda 5000i neo or Paguro 3SY.
Our boat is an Xc45 (approx 15-16tons, so I do not really consider the extra 100kg weight a big issue).

Cheers - Colin

I suggest a water cooled one, then circulate the coolant through radiators in the cabins and a heat exchanger/calorifier. Cool the exhaust too for a bit more efficiency. I have an auxilliary (Kubota) belt driving 230 and 24/28V alternators.

[Shaneesprit]

If I was going to buy a small diesel Gen there is only 1 engine I would consider for powering it A Yanmar LL100 single cylinder Aircooled, 9hp actually failing that a Lister Petter Aircooled if you can still get them.
There is a good reason all of the copy generators you can get all copied this engine

[Nineteen]

Originally Posted by skenn_ie

I suggest a water cooled one, then circulate the coolant through radiators in the cabins and a heat exchanger/calorifier. Cool the exhaust too for a bit more efficiency. I have an auxilliary (Kubota) belt driving 230 and 24/28V alternators.

Hi
You can run a water heat exchanger with the Piccolo 5 as well. It is available as an option from the manufacturer. They use the hot oil to heat a coolant loop.
I have played with the Panda as well before settling on the Piccolo and the choice of buying the Whisperpower unit once you put them side by side was simple.
Cheers
Tom

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

If I was going to buy a small diesel Gen there is only 1 engine I would consider for powering it A Yanmar LL100 single cylinder Aircooled, 9hp actually failing that a Lister Petter Aircooled if you can still get them.

There is a good reason all of the copy generators you can get all copied this engine

There are a range of good industrial engines , Mitsubishi make some , personally the small kubotas can’t be beat.

These days if I needed one , I’d go down the dc generator route and big invertors.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

If I was going to buy a small diesel Gen there is only 1 engine I would consider for powering it A Yanmar LL100 single cylinder Aircooled, 9hp actually failing that a Lister Petter Aircooled if you can still get them.
There is a good reason all of the copy generators you can get all copied this engine

Don't park within a few miles of me with that air-cooled single pot monstrosity

[Shaneesprit]

Having worked on the design and production of a fully noise compliant, Yanmar generator yes an LL100, true might be less suited to your boat.
But for reliability nothing beats it well except a Lister Petter.
Once ran a Lister Petter for 8000 hours without stopping, well to completely factual I turned it off and replaced it after an 8000 hour run without anyone so much as looking it!
and i do mean no eyes on it at all - no people within miles of it for a whole year.
Let me see your Kubota do that, what’s your chances?
I own a Kubota (Beta) so not knocking them.