Connecting LED dome lights small wires to big wires...

[CaptTom]

This is the first I'd heard of "step down" butt connectors, thanks!

We've all heard that soldered connections aren't appropriate for a boat, although I think on these smaller wires, if sealed and supported, it shouldn't be a problem.

That said, I also stumbled across "solder seal" heat shrink butt connectors. Another one I hadn't heard of before. Looks like a good solution in some cases. Getting the temp just right to melt the solder without burning the insulation seems like it might be tricky. And at $1.50 and up for each connector, practicing could get expensive.

[Terra Nova]

None of the solutions mentioned is correct for this application.

Dome lights fail and get repaired or replaced. The inaccessible wiring that is buried in the headliner must be preserved. So it is wise to connect dome lights using insulated, unplug-able crimp connectors such as Fast-Ons, etc, or by installing a mini terminal strip. This allows for the removal and replacement of the lights without shortening the ship's wiring each time a repair or replacement is required. Male and female portions of the connectors are alternately installed such that positive and ground cannot be misconnected.

It is possible to combine the male and female portions of these connectors so that different wire sizes can be accommodated.

[beirutsailor]

Originally Posted by TreblePlink

Not approved by who and why not?

Because the joint becomes rigid and break. That's why we use twisted and not singkle strand wire on boats. Solder is much more fragile.

[TreblePlink]

For 12 volt wiring, I really like the sexless Anderson Powerpoles. The 15 amp flavor for small wire and the 30 amp version for most other. Gotta buy the $40 tool, but it's worth it:

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power...-sb-connectors

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by kish

Wiring 101 teaches that the fuse is sized to protect the wire itself from short circuit, not the device supplied by the wire.
The fuse size is related to the wire gauge..

Correct.

Originally Posted by kish

Splicing the wires by folding together in spiral format and soldering is the only reliable method of joining small gauge wiring, followed by insulation with heat shrink tubing for insulation

Oh no. The old solder vs crimp thing again.

In my opinion and experience and also that of a number of quite experienced experts this is not correct. A proper crimp no matter what wire size is just as if not more reliable. Smaller gauge wires will be even more susceptible to breaking at the hard point created by the solder joint.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Correct.

Correct except that he forgot that part of the circuit is #22 wire.

He is using the right words in the wrong way.

Now another solution would be to leave the original 15 amp breakers for the wires feeding the lights and then install a 5 amp fuse at each light but that would be making things harder and more complicated than they need to be.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Correct except that he forgot that part of the circuit is #22 wire.

He is using the right words in the wrong way.

Went back to reread the post and see I didn't notice he was commenting about the 5 amp breaker. So yes, he has the theory correct but not the numbers. Fuse for the smallest wire in the circuit.

Originally Posted by rwidman

Now another solution would be to leave the original 15 amp breakers for the wires feeding the lights and then install a 5 amp fuse at each light but that would be making things harder and more complicated than they need to be.

And as we all know, KISS.

[tstano]

Can you twist them together and stuff them in the same side of a crimp connector?

All U Get

[Dadrock33]

Skipmac is correct . . . as a bit of an alternative, I might suggest terminating your 14G wire with one of the "two blade" fuses (in this case - 5Amp) on one end and then insert the 22G wire into the other end . . you are now protected . . . . and, in the future, if someone wants to go back to one of the original lights - all they would have to do is sever the 5A fuse off and attach their 14G wire to the device . . . no harm . . .

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by TreblePlink

Not approved by who and why not?

Per ABYC solder should not be the only means of connection. You can certainly crimp then solder but a good crimp hardly needs solder.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Dadrock33

Skipmac is correct . . . as a bit of an alternative, I might suggest terminating your 14G wire with one of the "two blade" fuses (in this case - 5Amp) on one end and then insert the 22G wire into the other end . . you are now protected . . . . and, in the future, if someone wants to go back to one of the original lights - all they would have to do is sever the 5A fuse off and attach their 14G wire to the device . . . no harm . . .

The last thing one needs is fuses spotted all over the boat, often hidden behind the headliner. Size the breaker properly and that is all that is needed.

[BlackHeron]

I like these.

http://a.co/bVp1Qtg

The wires go in from the same side and are crimped together. Twist the wires together first before crimping. Maybe put in a dab of anti-ox grease just for giggles before you crimp.

Dunk the whole thing into liquid electrical tape after taping the wires together an inch or two back to strain-relief the joint and seal it up totally against moisture. Do that again after the first coat dries to cover any possible bubbles/holes that formed the first dunking.

If you want to even further then put a piece of heat-shrink over the top of the dried liquid electrical tape and shrink it down, pinch the ends to seal in the wires and the open end down flat. That will make the wire termination permanent and totally moisture-proof as much as the wire insulation is.

This is how we do things in the commercial/industrial electrical trade when dealing with harsh conditions.

I also like the idea of bullet or spade connectors as well. Maybe reverse the connectors so they can't possibly be connected with the wrong polarity. Downside of this is some idiot down the road could possibly plug them into each other and create dead short.

[steve77]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

None of the solutions mentioned is correct for this application.

Dome lights fail and get repaired or replaced. The inaccessible wiring that is buried in the headliner must be preserved. So it is wise to connect dome lights using insulated, unplug-able crimp connectors such as Fast-Ons, etc, or by installing a mini terminal strip. This allows for the removal and replacement of the lights without shortening the ship's wiring each time a repair or replacement is required. Male and female portions of the connectors are alternately installed such that positive and ground cannot be misconnected.

It is possible to combine the male and female portions of these connectors so that different wire sizes can be accommodated.

In our boat, the headliner is rigid panels that are removable in fairly large pieces. I use quick connect terminals for my lighting since it makes it easy to remove the headliner pieces. Before I did this, the lights kept the headliner pieces dangling from the ceiling by the wires.

If your headliner is removable like ours, then I would strongly recommend you consider these crimpable terminals. By alternating the male and female connectors, you can make it pretty much foolproof so it is impossible to connect the lights with reversed polarity.

Cheers!

Steve

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by steve77

In our boat, the headliner is rigid panels that are removable in fairly large pieces. I use quick connect terminals for my lighting since it makes it easy to remove the headliner pieces. Before I did this, the lights kept the headliner pieces dangling from the ceiling by the wires.

If your headliner is removable like ours, then I would strongly recommend you consider these crimpable terminals. By alternating the male and female connectors, you can make it pretty much foolproof so it is impossible to connect the lights with reversed polarity.

Cheers!

Steve

If you use anything like these connectors, remember that there will still be 12 volts on one of the connectors. This must not be the male connector (with exposed metal). Remember this.

[kish]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Incorrect on both counts. Even though there is 14 gauge wire at for most of the circuit, protecting for 14 gauge wire leaves the leads to the LED fixtures unprotected. Replacing the breakers with 5 amp breakers protects this portion of the circuit.

Soldering is not the approved method for splicing wires. Crimp connectors are the recommended way. Now if you're talking about connecting #22 or smaller wires to each other, I might agree with you but not #22 to #14.

You are misunderstanding the basics of fusing.
The wire run in a circuit from a fuse panel to supply devices must be protected by a fuse appropriate to the current rating of the supply wire itself. This protects the wire only.
Most devices (unless there is a single device only in the circuit) are connected by a tee off from the supplying wires (+12 volt and earth) and will usually use only a fraction of the amp rating of the supplying circuit backbone wire. To fuse the supply wire for the smallest wire in the supply wire run will reduce the current carrying capacity of that wire.
The teed off device from a fused circuit can have an inline sub fuse fuse appropriate to its' wire size, which protects the device's wiring but does not down rate the backbone wire supplying the device.

Connecting directly small gauge to smaller gauge is deprecated and an appropriate junction box with appropriate terminals, jumpered together would be the norm in industrial wiring.
In the situation described here, spiral twisting together of both wires over a long length along with soldering and heat shrink insulation is the next best thing or least worst option.