Connecting Really Small Wires

[RainDog]

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty

26ga wire is the proper size for many applications, particularly NMEA data. Surprisingly enough some elctronics manufacturers know that, and use this size on their products.

This is my situation. 4 NMEA wires. I have 26 on both ends (vhf and gps). Sounds like you are saying I should be using 26 in the middle.

[DeepFrz]

Use 26 in the middle only if they are together in a multi-conductor cable. I guess if they are very short wires and can be properly supported then you would be okay.

They must be supported so there is no stress on the wires at the connectors and so there is no flexing in between the connectors.

[btrayfors]

Obviously, dependent on what you are doing, but I think you'll find that small terminal strips or terminal blocks are the way to go in many situations.

Terminal Strips | AllElectronics.com

Bill

[Bergovoy]

yea, i would agree, but in a pinch, they will work, but I would opt for almost anything else if you got them on hand

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by btrayfors

Obviously, dependent on what you are doing, but I think you'll find that small terminal strips or terminal blocks are the way to go in many situations.

Terminal Strips | AllElectronics.com

Bill

OK, so one side has a 16 ga to a ring connector and that goes to one of the screws on the block. Now the other side has a 26 ga wire. What connector do you use for that?

I could not find any "small" ones.

These pink connectors were used from production and all I could find and are waayyy too big but.............

Sorry for the hijack.

[David M]

If you want quick, dirty and reliable except if it is exposed to water, one way is to strip both the 26 and the 16. Then take the 26 and wrap it around the 16 a number of times. Then put both wires in the same end of an insulated 16-14 butt connector and crimp down. It's not pretty but it works.

[Bergovoy]

is it standard practice to use coatins or something to prevent corrosion of expsed terminals/connections?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Wire nuts have no (NO) place on a boat and soldering wires that small is just asking for trouble. Stick to the crimp fasteners and glue sealed heat shrink.

Indeed!

[David M]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

is it standard practice to use coatins or something to prevent corrosion of expsed terminals/connections?

It depends on where onboard the connection is going to be. If there is any chance of spray or condensation then it needs to be watertight. If it is something like a well protected electrical panel inside the boat then a watertight connection is not necessary. You still want to use marine grade tinned wire and crimp type electrical connectors. I put a coating of Tef-Gel over the bare wire before doing a non-watertight crimp but this is not necessary. It will pretty much eliminate corrosion between the wire and the crimp should it get moist.

[delmarrey]

I would suggest reading ABYC E-11.16......

WIRING TERMINALS
11.16.3.1. and installed to make mechanical and electrical joints without damage to the conductors.
11.16.3.2. Metals used for the terminal studs, nuts, and washers shall be corrosion resistant and galvanically compatible with the conductor and terminal lug. Aluminum and unplated steel shall not be used for studs, nuts, and washers.
11.16.3.3. Each conductor-splice joining conductor to conductor, conductor to connectors, and conductor to terminals must be able to withstand a tensile force equal to at least the value shown in Table XVI for the smallest conductor size used in the splice for a one minute duration, and not break.
11.16.3.4. Terminal connectors shall be the ring or captive spade types. (See FIGURE 17.)
EXCEPTION: Friction type connectors may be used on components if
1. the circuit is rated not more than 20 amperes or the manufacturer's rating for a terminal designed to meet the requirements of UL 310, “Electrical Quick- Connect Terminals”, or UL 1059, “Terminal Block”s, and
2. the voltage drop from terminal to terminal does not exceed 50 millivolts for a 20 amp current flow, and
3. the connection does not separate if subjected for one minute to a six pound (27 Newton) tensile force along the axial direction of the connector, on the first withdrawal.
11.16.3.5. Connections may be made using a set- screw pressure type conductor connector, providing a means is used to prevent the set-screw from bearing directly on the conductor strands.
11.16.3.6. Twist on connectors, i.e., wire nuts, shall not be used.
11.16.3.7. Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.
EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.
NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided.
11.16.3.8. Solderless crimp on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tools designed for the connector used, and that will produce a connection meeting the requirements of E-11.16.3.3.
11.16.3.9. The shanks of terminals shall be protected against accidental shorting by the use of insulation barriers or sleeves, except for those used in grounding systems.

11.16.4.1.
INSTALLATION GENERAL
11.16.4.1.1. enclosures in which electrical connections are made shall be weatherproof, or installed in a protected location, to minimize the entrance or accumulation of moisture or water within the boxes, cabinets, or enclosures.
11.16.4.1.2. In wet locations, metallic boxes, cabinets, or enclosures shall be mounted to minimize the entrapment of moisture between the box, cabinet, or enclosure, and the adjacent structure. If air spacing is used to accomplish this, the minimum shall be 1/4 inch (7.0 mm).
11.16.4.1.3. Unused openings in boxes, cabinets, and weatherproof enclosures shall be closed.
11.16.4.1.4. All conductors shall be supported and/or clamped to relieve strain on connections.
11.16.4.1.5. When AC and DC conductors are run together, the AC conductors shall be sheathed,bundled, or otherwise kept separate from the DC conductors.
11.16.4.1.6. Current-carrying conductors shall be routed as high as practicable above the bilge water level and other areas where water may accumulate. If conductors must be routed in the bilge or other areas where water may accumulate, the connections shall be watertight.
11.16.4.1.7. Conductors shall be routed as far away as practicable from exhaust pipes and other heat sources. Unless an equivalent thermal barrier is provided, a clearance of at least two inches (51 mm) between conductors and water cooled exhaust components, and a clearance of at least nine inches (230 mm) between conductors and dry exhaust components, shall be maintained. Conductors shall not be routed directly above a dry exhaust.
EXCEPTIONS: 1. Wiring on engines.
2. Exhaust temperature sensor wiring.
11.16.4.1.8. Conductors that may be exposed to physical damage shall be protected by self-draining; loom, conduit, tape, raceways, or other equivalent protection. Conductors passing through bulkheads or structural members shall be protected to minimize insulation damage such as chafing or pressure displacement. Conductors shall also be routed clear of sources of chafing such as steering cable and linkages, engine shafts, and control connections.
11.16.4.1.9. Loom used to cover conductors shall be self-extinguishing. The base product (or resin) shall be classified as V-2 or better, in accordance with UL 94, Tests For Flammability Of Plastic Materials.
11.16.4.1.10. Conductors shall be supported throughout their length or shall be secured at least every 18 inches (455mm) by one of the following methods:
11.16.4.1.10.1. By means of non-metallic clamps sized to hold the conductors firmly in place. Non- metallic straps or clamps shall not be used over engine(s), moving shafts, other machinery or passageways, if failure would result in a hazardous condition. The material shall be resistant to oil, gasoline, and water and shall not break or crack within a temperature range of -34°C (-30°F) to 121°C (250°F);
11.16.4.1.10.2. By means of metal straps or clamps with smooth, rounded edges to hold the conductors firmly in place without damage to the conductors or insulation. That section of the conductor or cable directly under the strap or clamp shall be protected by means of loom, tape or other suitable wrapping to prevent injury to the conductor;11.16.4.1.10.3. By means of metal clamps lined with an insulating material resistant to the effects of oil, gasoline, and water.

[bazzer]

Soldering with bare wires twisted first and then with waterproof heat shrink is just fine in my book, but it takes skill to solder properly! I did a Royal Air Force Apprenticeship and took months to learn how.

[Bergovoy]

i dont think soldering was that difficult... the basic premise was to use the least amount of heat to mel solder, and to only heat the wire, and let the wire melt the solder, and not just touch the solder to the iron and drip it onto the wire...

hopefully that makes sense...

oh, and to use the least amount of solder as needed to coat the wire, or to create the fillet 'mound' on the circuit board...


But, i did see that movie on training and how important soldering is, the video showed a rocket blasting off and failing in a huge explosion and it was blamed on one single solder connection...

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by bazzer

Soldering with bare wires twisted first and then with waterproof heat shrink is just fine in my book ...

Reiterating delmarrey’s contribution, ABYC 11.16.3.7. states, in part:
Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor...
NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided.

[bazzer]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Reiterating delmarrey’s contribution, ABYC 11.16.3.7. states, in part:
Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor...
NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided.

I would argue that twisting the wires is a mechanical connection also the heat shrink provides a mechanical connection as well as being supported in a loom or a terminal block or a switch connection. My boat built in 1976 as all of the switches are soldered and none show any signs of failure except where the PO resoldered in a very hamfisted way. I've corrected those!
this recommendation does not say not to solder.
By the way, soldering covers a large gambit, here we are talking about lead solder, which has been banned here in California and I don't like using the substitute. I personally use crimp and solder as I see fit. Also just remember that all of the circuit boards in your electronics are soldered including most of the internal wiring without support or heat shrink, what does the ABYC say about this?

[Bergovoy]

if the 'switch' is mechanically connected, then you would be consistant and compliant with teh rule...

i am guessing hte issue is intended to be like a splice in wires and it is mid span between supporting clips...