E FOY Fuel Cell Generator

[brianb00]

I recently was involved with a Transpacific race. A Mini was using the EFOY and solar. Unlike other boats who depended 100% on solar, he did not run out of amps. His selection was based on overall weight contribution and a desire to have two sources of energy without dropping a propeller in the airstream or water flow. As I recall he had approx 200 watts of solar. The availability of photons in the first 5 days of the race was a hindrance to those dependent upon same.

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

I do hope you've done your costings correctly.

Maine Sail came up with fuel costs of 15$ for 80Ah, that includes the shipping costs - that's 1.5$ per hour for the largest unit. They last only 5000 hrs and cost about 5000$ and only last a year - so thats another 1$ per hour.

TOTAL running costs 2.5$ per hour - 10 hours a day or more - 25$ per day just to charge your batteries or run your fridge?

done some initial research. Seems reasonable to me. Cost is secondary to me, after cosmetics.

I figure I will need about 20amps a day (probably WAY too high an estimate, rather estimate high than low) when the boat is on a mooring during the summer for the fridge and bilge pump. The model 1600 (could probably go with a smaller one actually) can put out 130 Ah.

Reports are you can get 2-3 weeks on a cartridge. most people buying ice at retail, would blow that cost in ice in short order! No doubt, If I bought ice at retail, I would be saving money over the long haul. Would cost $20/trip min x 4+ trips a month is an easy 80-100 right there.

If it costs me 50-100/mo to run it. so be it. no one said sailing was cheap! The cost savings I get doing ALL the work, maintenance and repairs on the boat will more than offset any new cost I encounter. Probably would be a wash, in cost, compared to savings in not buying ice.

The savings to me, once the fridge is installed, in not carrying 50+# of ice, tons of bottles of water, soda, drinks and other stuff is huge as well. Will cut the number of bags (and weight) I have to carry on the launch by at least half.

Cost savings in time, back pain, weight, convenience far outweigh, to me anyway, the cost of fuel.

And the boat still looks pretty! which is the only thing, to me, that matters!

[COLINFLTENG]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

done some initial research. Seems reasonable to me. Cost is secondary to me, after cosmetics.

I figure I will need about 20amps a day (probably WAY too high an estimate, rather estimate high than low) when the boat is on a mooring during the summer for the fridge and bilge pump. The model 1600 (could probably go with a smaller one actually) can put out 130 Ah.

Reports are you can get 2-3 weeks on a cartridge. most people buying ice at retail, would blow that cost in ice in short order! No doubt, If I bought ice at retail, I would be saving money over the long haul. Would cost $20/trip min x 4+ trips a month is an easy 80-100 right there.

If it costs me 50-100/mo to run it. so be it. no one said sailing was cheap! The cost savings I get doing ALL the work, maintenance and repairs on the boat will more than offset any new cost I encounter. Probably would be a wash, in cost, compared to savings in not buying ice.

The savings to me, once the fridge is installed, in not carrying 50+# of ice, tons of bottles of water, soda, drinks and other stuff is huge as well. Will cut the number of bags (and weight) I have to carry on the launch by at least half.

Cost savings in time, back pain, weight, convenience far outweigh, to me anyway, the cost of fuel.

And the boat still looks pretty! which is the only thing, to me, that matters!

I totally agree with you is your boat and what in most important is how you feel at the end of day if I had more money I would join you be happy going green it is expensive enjoy your boat hope some day I can join you

[phantomracer]

not going to use it to be green. Just think it is an elegant, hidden, solution

[COLINFLTENG]

Originally Posted by phantomracer

not going to use it to be green. Just think it is an elegant, hidden, solution

Please give us a update when you get to use the system new engine on top of boat list my solar panels have work out OK
wrong pic i try again

[COLINFLTENG]

Here is how we mounted our panels

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by COLINFLTENG

Here is how we mounted our panels

still no pictures..

here is a link to an Ohlson forum that gave me the idea of the fuel cell - ohlson38.freeforums.org • View topic - Solving the energy problem?

[Zil]

Set up a still and run it on ethanol. Sun shine makes more sense.

[COLINFLTENG]

Originally Posted by COLINFLTENG

Here is how we mounted our panels

Sorry having problems adding pic hear goes

[Alenka]

Interesting that no one has compared the cost of the EFOY to a conventional marine generator running on diesel!

Like the EFOY those things are not cheap and they don't last very long I am told. I did read somewhere about the fuel used/Kw generation ratio and I don't think that it was very good, probably costing more than the EFOY to run.

Of course the EFOY is silent and easy to install. I was quoted 11,000 euros for a 3Kw genny installation which is making me look again a the EFOY - I could buy almost two units at that price.

Like others I believe EFOY are doing themselves and the technology a big mis-service charging so much for their own Ethanol. They need to re-think this stratergy.

My own conclusions; use as much solar as you can and let the EFOY kick in when it really has too through the night to keep the fridge running.

[phantomracer]

Agree their brand of methanol is not cheap. But I calculate I will need under US$100 of it in a season. Not the end of the world. The convenience it offers outweighs the fuel cost, IMO.

I did buy the efoy, but haven't got around to installing it yet.

I can't wait to install it, and the refrigeration.

[phantomracer]

The edit will work great in a system that has solar.

Not going to install solar on our boat

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by Alenka

Interesting that no one has compared the cost of the EFOY to a conventional marine generator running on diesel!...I was quoted 11,000 euros for a 3Kw genny installation which is making me look again a the EFOY - I could buy almost two units at that price....

The cost of the diesel is small relative to the cost of the ethanol.

Efoys will only last about one year each in a cruising boat and can't be repaired, the Titanium plates need replacing so it is cheaper to buy a new one. Check out Efoy's specs on this. A genny will/should last a lot longer - and a genny can be repaired and kept going - mine is 7 years old now.

You also have to realise that they are two totally different beasts. The Effoy has a maximum charge current of 10 amps, my FP DC genny charges at 280 amps. A battery bank of say 400Ah should have a charger that can deliver 100 amps - batteries need aggressive charging to charge them properly.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

Efoys will only last about one year each in a cruising boat and can't be repaired, the Titanium plates need replacing so it is cheaper to buy a new one. Check out Efoy's specs on this.

I did t find anything in the specs indicating they would only last a year. Why do you think they'll only last a year?

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

I did t find anything in the specs indicating they would only last a year. Why do you think they'll only last a year?

I have had several email exchanges with Efoy and these are my conclusions with their comments in italics:

EFOY say it is designed for private use with an estimated lifetime of approximately 5000 hours; it lasts for up to 10 years assuming average use of approximately 300 to 500 charging hours per year.

After 5000 h the risk of a defective component or power decrease of the stack is high. A replacement of a defective component costs up to £2000, and after this repair it is not a new unit. Therefore we recommend replacing the whole unit after reaching the fuel cells lifetime.

This high service cost makes Fuel Cells even less appealing than just the high fuel running costs.

Effoy’s website shows a charge capacity/day of 210Ah for their largest fuel cell which is only designed for a battery capacity up to 350 Ah.

This unit only charges at 8.8 amps - so after 24 hrs it could theoretically put in 211Ah but only into a large battery bank that will take a constant 8.8 amps which would not fall away as the battery becomes fully charged. 211Ah into an FLA bank that has only an 80% charging efficiency is actually only putting in 168Ah. More realistically this might be 100Ah/24hrs running continually if trying to get a battery bank up to 100%.

So if it has to be running continually the number of days a Fuel Cell should last before they need major maintenance is a maximum of 5000hrs/24hrs, which is about 200 days. This is a fair estimate for a full time liveaboard. Average daily Ah usage maybe much more, especially when sailing. Solar power which could put in an extra 50Ahs/d. Add in occasional motoring and visits to marinas and the 200 days could be extended to 365 days.

Efoy do agree with these figures and say that for fulltime cruisers their fuel cell will not be a cheap option.