ecological footprint of solar panels

[Boracay]

Am I the only person who thinks that all of this environmental stuff is one big scam.
I don't mean that the world is not getting warmer etc.
What I mean is that all the dumb bunnies are expected to get up there to work to save the environment while the mega wealthy get mega mega wealthy going the other way.
Until I see governments, corporations and the mega wealthy getting up wiith some real serious efforts anything that you or I can do is just p*##*ng in the wind.
And by real serious I mean very expensive research, humungous solar power, govenment mandated small cars, compulsory and effective energy saving design etc.
And did I mention losing economic growth as the only driver of our economies.
So I am not going to worry. If it is an cost effective reliable solution then I am going to use it.

I can see the fleet of Honda Insights tooling down Pennsylvania Avenue now

[mudnut]

Chris31415,I agree the governments arn't doing a great job of it all,but,your attitude to their response isn't all that sound.It's VERY clear that we must do our little bit to help the planet.To wait on the sideline for some inspirational fix-it plan from the Govt,is,just not good enough.The saying "Don't **** in ya own backyard"goes back a long way and didn't have the same ramafication as it has now.Okay,I am with you on the bit about,serious efforts by the leaders,but the bit about anything that you or I can do is just p*##*ng in the wind.(Spelling?)Does seem a bit over the top.It's a personal thing,do it or don't.Mudnut.

[Islandmike]

Sean,

I too am somewhat of a semi-survivalist, however, I do have a conscience in the matters of ecology, my wife! All kidding aside while we are doing this because we do like the lifestyle, I feel as an added benefit this lifestlye is generally more ecologically sound than other types. If it wasnt, I would probably still be doing it anyway.

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Sean?
*Getting water is a PITA
Solar still on the foredeck? They do work, and "any" free water might help.

*Disposing of trash is a PITA
Take the extra packaging back to the supermarket (or wherever) and tell them you want less garbage with your goods. Or, sell it on eBay as "landfill credits".<G>

Agreed, Hellosailor. I am catching rainwater starting in the springtime to help with the water issue. Also, I burn all of my packaging to light the woodstove in the winter time (cardboard, of course - not plastics).

Island Mike - Same exact attitude over here. I love sailing and boats. It's just an added bonus that it's ecologically friendly. I never set out to be environmental. It was a direct result of the efficiency required to make live easy on a boat. Hence, my whole point that living on a boat is more "environmental" than land life.

[hellosailor]

Mudnut, he raises a practical point. Consider if you will, the "second world" and the "first world" both clearcut huge forests in order to get fuel and timber and advance themselves. But here we are, telling the "third" world, especially Brazil, not to deforest themselves, not to advance themselves, but to save the jungles so we can breath. Hmmmm....
And we offer them nothing in return, for behaving better than we did while they save they world? (With the rare and NGO exception of buying up forests and "parking" them.)
Environmental issues are one of the many where being a nie guy and doing the right thing only places you at the back of the pack, while the carnivores enrich themselves and come out ahead--at your suffering AND with your help. This is not a way to encourage folks to step up to the task. Multiply that by the problem of sovereign governments (i.e. who is going to tell China to stop burning coal and not join the world economy? And why should they?) and I confess, I don't see any solution other than "grab it while you can". I don't LIKE that solution, but I don't see any other alternative except "do the right thing and be a loser."
You see a better way? A different outcome? A way to confiscate SUVs and allow China and Brazil to join the "first world" at the same time?

[Alan Wheeler]

I am really annoyed that we have one side telling us we need to recycle and yet the otherside see it as a means of making money. For instance. Our local refuse centre charges $5.00 to take an old car battery because they tell use it is expensive to deal with the toxic materials. OK fair nuff. But I can take my old battery to the metal recycler and get paid 50cents for it. Not much but better than me paying. Low and behold, there sitting in his yard is the same pallet of batteries from the refuse station. Huh???
Same with an old car body. We have to pay $80 to dump an old car if the tyres are still on it, and $30 if they are removed. OK, fair nuff if they are havign to pay for the tyres to be broken down or something. But no, they go straight into the the land fill. So why did we pay extra for the stuff to go to the same place. Well actually the two didn't go to the same place. The metal body actually gets compacted and taken away as scrap steel and the refuse station gets money for the scrap. So what's the result???
People with less of a consence just dump the tyres and old cars and other rubbish down in the river beds etc. Yes illegal, but in the dead of night, they don't get caught and don't care.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Multiply that by the problem of sovereign governments (i.e. who is going to tell China to stop burning coal and not join the world economy? And why should they?) and I confess, I don't see any solution other than "grab it while you can".

While China and India are burning heaps of coal at the moment, I beliieve China at least is looking at Nuclear [ scary $hit], I remember reading recently about them buying into a Uranium mine here in Australia.

What would be worse Coal, or Nuclear ????

They currently have 10 year contracts in place to buy coal from Oz, which is great for Central Queensland economy, and keeping my early retirement well on track.

But saying that it is a pretty disgusting seeing the rapeing and pillaging out in the coal feilds, so it's not just burning coal that's an issue, but also thousand's of acres being ripped up to get at it.

But what's the alternative?


Dave

[cat man do]

We've been doing our bit for the environment , well at least we can justify it to ourselves, by not having children.
No shitty disposable nappies and an endless supply of crappy plastic toy's for them.
No endless supply of the latest stuff that they insist on having when they get older.

Also by driveing recycled pre 1985 car's that run on LPG. Always amazed at how people over here and I suspect it's the same everywhere that rush out and get the latest and greatest Gas guzzling 4x4 to go and do the shopping in and take above mentioned precious litle things to child care . What happened to not having a bloody truck or 4x4 unless you needed it.
About 98% of these things never get dirt on them.

So by not subscribing to the above way of life I feel i'm justified in having a live aboard stink boat , not a toy,and burning relatively small amounts of diesel.

We won't have a car anymore either.

Dave

[hellosailor]

Dave, while "Red China" and "Nuclear" are two terms I prefer not to hear at the same time, I have to give them credit for their work. Apparently they've take an abandoned technology (Pebble Bed Reactors) and they're about to put it into big time production as a safe and scaleable modular power system to be widely deployed. Safe in the sense that there's no "China Syndrome" if one fails, it just fails in place.

In China they say "If you are one in a million, there are still a thousand other Comrades who can replace you" and it's true. Apparently they've figured out that if they can also tap the "one in a million" brains...they can be technology leaders, sooner or later.

Not that I'm a big fan of China, but the advantage of a dictatorship is that one the State decides to fund something that needs to happen, IT HAPPENS. US leaders have forgotten how to do that, they spend all their time playing dog-and-pony shows and pandering for votes instead.

[cat man do]

Hellosailor, I don't have a problem with China, and I know what you mean by if they want something done it happens.

Had an Oz company went there to build boats, they lacked quality and have been mentioned previously in this forum, but they needed a shed and the government built a HUUUUUGE big shed in less time than it would have taken to get council approval over here.

Needed power, no worries, we'll build a mini powerstation,
need to get the boat to the water, they just do it.

I love this way of thinking, should be more of it.

Dave

[Starbuck]

The efficiency of dictators is frightening: what they want gets done, quickly, whether wise or foolish, compassionate or unspeakably cruel. This unchecked executive power is what let Stalin kill 50 million of his own people trying to rearrange the entire production end of his economy, mostly through displacement and starvation.

I'll take the slowly turning, inefficient wheels of democracy any day.

[Alan Wheeler]

You guy's need to catch up. China ain't the country it used to be. It is changing very fast. They are thinking ahead in terms of pollution etc. Even in things like coal, well actually, they don't just burn coal for energy anymore. We send huge amounts of coal reserves over into China and Japan. Our coal is of very high quality and too expensive just to burn. It is all turned into high quality activated Carbon for breathing and medical equipment. Much of the industry is lead by overseas companies. And many companies have the very latest in technology with the very latest in environmental controll. China is no longer the back street sweat shop on a dusty floor type industry anymore. If you went and looked, you woudl get a very big shock at what they have and what they do.
India is still slightly behind, but give it time and it will catch up. I think what is holding India back from China is, Chinese comunist powers actually want to make China look good to the western world. It's a competitive thing for them. They want to be better than the west. India doesn't have that political drive to push it's growth along.

[cat man do]

There was a big heap of money being spent just outside of Rockhampton at a place called Gracemere to make a cokeing plant as Australia has some of the best cokeing coal in the world.

http://www.queenslandcokeandenergy.c...nvironment.php

Millions were spent and a dozen different stages and consultations were gone through over the years.

There was going to be thousands of jobs to build it and even more in offshoot jobs around the area. People were getting hundreds of houses built, heaps of development, new shopping centres, money everywhere and it still dragged on.

China got sick of the stuffing around and built there own cokeing plant and the Australian one got shelved.

I like the doing stuff attitude, not the talking about it.

Dave

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by cat man do

I beliieve China at least is looking at Nuclear [ scary $hit]
Dave

I sure hope their power plant is built better than the "power plant" they sold me! The "David"/"China Diesel" genset fell apart after like 120 hours, if I remember correctly. Threw a rod!! When's the last time you heard of something like that happening?

I don't know if they give us (the States) all the junk, but everything they make over there that's metal is made of this flaky, inferior stuff that fall apart like shale/mica.

The wife and I have attempted to stop buying Chinese. Not for our country or anything, but for ourselves. It's hard though, since it's rare to find any product in the USA that isn't made in China. Come to think of it... what do we produce in this country again?? (scratching head)