elci breaker with inverter chargers

[00X]

hi,

we just ordered a victron multiplus 3k inverter charger. in doing research to prepare for installing it, i started to come across mentions of inverter chargers tripping elci breakers and not being compatible with them. do any of you use an inverter/charger with an elci breaker? is it working with the elci breaker? we have elci and gfci outlets on board.

i suppose its possible to remove the elci breaker and replace it with a standard double pole breaker but i really like having it for obvious safety concerns. we were originally going to use an inverter only (victron phoenix 3k), but the price for the inverter charger combo was actually a little cheaper.

at the time we ordered it we were not aware of any potential issues with elci. we could still return it and exchange it for the phoenix stand alone inverter. we have not opened the box yet or tried installing it yet, but it would be nice to have the extra charging capability if its possible.

[rslifkin]

In my experience, you only end up with issues with an ELCI/GFCI breaker if things are wired wrong. The neutral from the shore inlet needs to be kept separate from the neutral on the inverter output. That way the neutral/ground bond relay in the inverter doesn't bond the shore neutral and cause a trip when you first connect shore power (before the inverter transfers to shore power and disconnects the internal neutral/ground bond).

[00X]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In my experience, you only end up with issues with an ELCI/GFCI breaker if things are wired wrong. The neutral from the shore inlet needs to be kept separate from the neutral on the inverter output. That way the neutral/ground bond relay in the inverter doesn't bond the shore neutral and cause a trip when you first connect shore power (before the inverter transfers to shore power and disconnects the internal neutral/ground bond).

thank you. i have gotten pretty comfortable with the AC and DC wiring aboard but this one im having trouble getting my head around. i am having trouble visualizing how this would be accomplished. it sounds like your suggesting that the shore neutral bypass the inverter completely? the wiring diagrams i have all seen so far show the L-N-E all going to the AC input of the inverter. if the inverter/charger requires all three for normal operation, how do you separate the neutral input on the inverter from its neutral output? i will really have to think this one through. all of our AC loads right now are connected directly to the back of the AC panel bus bars and breakers and the incoming shore power lines connect directly to the bus bars on the back of the AC panel after it passes through the ELCI breaker.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by 00X

thank you. i'm having trouble visualizing how this would be accomplished. the wiring diagrams i have all seen so far show the L-N-E all going to the AC input of the inverter. if the inverter/charger requires all three for normal operation, how on earth do you seperate the neutral input on the inverter from its neutral output?

You feed those all in to the inverter. And they all come out of the inverter as well. But any bus bars connected to the neutral have to be kept separate.

So if everything goes through the inverter, it's easy. Shore neutral goes to the inverter inlet, everything else connects to the inverter output neutral. If some loads don't go through the inverter, then things have to be connected to the correct neutral (either shore or inverter neutral).

[smac999]

if the inverter charger is wired incorectly it will trip the Elci every time the boat is plugged in and never work.

if it's wired correctly you won't have any issues.

the main problem is having a common neutral bus for shore and inverter loads. the inverter output needs it's own netrueal bus.

[smac999]

Originally Posted by 00X

thank you. i have gotten pretty comfortable with the AC and DC wiring aboard but this one im having trouble getting my head around. i am having trouble visualizing how this would be accomplished. it sounds like your suggesting that the shore neutral bypass the inverter completely? the wiring diagrams i have all seen so far show the L-N-E all going to the AC input of the inverter. if the inverter/charger requires all three for normal operation, how do you separate the neutral input on the inverter from its neutral output? i will really have to think this one through. all of our AC loads right now are connected directly to the back of the AC panel bus bars and breakers and the incoming shore power lines connect directly to the bus bars on the back of the AC panel after it passes through the ELCI breaker.

generally on boats you have shore loads and inverter loads. so half the boat is wired before the inverter and half is wired after the inverter. because hot water tanks, battery chargers, etc you don't want on the inverter.

the victron changes this by having 2 outputs. so you can run the shore line direct into the inverter (from the main breaker) and have everything after the inverter by using it's dual outputs instead. in which case the shore neutrals are already separated. because there is no shore side loads or neutral bus. but if you do this, and the inverter / charger ever failed. you would lose all ac on the boat. if you go this way you'd still want to seperate ac1 and ac2 output netureals, as well as the hots.