ELCI / Isolation Transformer.

[bglad]

What make/model is the surge suppressor you detail in your drawing?

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Attached my “gold standard” AC power reference diagram. It is comprehensive but you can just pick what you need from it and ignore other parts.

It has a 30A 120V 60Hz shore power with isolation transformer that can use an adapter to connect to 16A 230V 50Hz shore power. The transformer in this diagram always outputs 230/240V so when 120V 30A is put in, 240V 15A will come out. See how it breaks the ground conductor from shore? That is the most important part of it. The output then goes to your “shore/gen” selector switch.

There’s also the popular 120/240V 50A 60Hz shore power connection. This one is 12kW which makes for a very big isolation transformer so instead I used a galvanic isolator. I also added a surge suppressor to reduce the risk of damage from lightning strikes etc.

The part about a battery charger on shore power and an inverter for the power used aboard is done a little differently (more costly) in this diagram: it has two inverter/chargers of the same type. To get one to just invert for use of it’s output aboard, you flip the input breaker to the OFF position. The other one does the charging so on the outputs you use the unit that is inverting, not the one that is charging. This diagram allows to change things by turning switches instead of rewiring. Also, it uses 230/240V throughout and only creates 120V in the distribution groups. This is only of interest for US boats with 120V outlets.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CharlieJ

@goboatingnow
It should be noted that the ABYC Standards and the ISO Standards are being homogenized. This is a long process, but the end result will be universal standards worldwide for the recreational boating market.

BTW: Though not mentioned in the verbiage, ISO 13297 Small craft -Electrical systems Alternating current installations Figure D.3 clearly shows an electrostatic screen between the primary and secondary windings and connected to the shore safety ground. It is not connected to the isolation xfmr case. Note that Appendix D is "Informative".

Which year version are you referencing

[mimijane]

[QUOTE=CharlieJ;3308093]@mimijane #29


You will be compliant with ABYC if you can install the iso. xfmr. within 10', measured along the conductor, from the shore power inlet. In this case, no ELCI is required.
/QUOTE]


Hi Charlie,


Yes, but I would believe this would require an IT that complies with AYBC standards (As noted the Victron units don't have the shield). One can purchase a medical transformer that meets this requirement (example: http://catalog.triadmagnetics.com/As...M240-10400.pdf) , but it's not encapsulated so it still doesn't meet E11.7.



I'm pretty sure the Carling 120/240VAC are for split phase installations and expects the 240VAC line-line voltage to run the current sense module part. Maybe I'm just looking for something that doesn't exist.



Cheers,
Mark

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CharlieJ

@s/v Jedi #24


I will explain how the ABYC develops the Standards with a quote from the Standards:



The ABYC Staff has 16 paid staff members across five departments: Admin, Education, Technical, Membership and Marketing.

The Standards are developed in accordance with the quote above. Membership on the individual PTCs is based on expertise and experience and membership is closely monitored so that all market segments are represented. For example, the Electrical PTC is comprised of boatbuilders, equipment manufacturers, surveyors, USCG, UL, consulting engineers, working marine electricians, etc. These members are all volunteers...about 300 total volunteers across all the 70+ Standards.

I am disappointed in your comment as it comes from someone with an excellent technical background who has voluntarily shared his expertise on this forum over 11k times.

I again invite you, and anybody else that wants to improve the Standards, to join the applicable Standards' mailing list and participate.

I won’t. I do not believe in volunteering for something that is used commercially. Before I retired I volunteered a significant amount of time for organizations related to my work area; it’s not something to take lightly.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by bglad

What make/model is the surge suppressor you detail in your drawing?

Progressive.

[CharlieJ]

@s/v Jedi #34

I won’t. I do not believe in volunteering for something that is used commercially. Before I retired I volunteered a significant amount of time for organizations related to my work area; it’s not something to take lightly.

I obviously will not change your mind about applying your technical knowledge to a wider audience by codifying it in the ABYC Standards. But I have to leave you with two thoughts:
1. In the USA, a non-profit organization (which the ABYC is) is just that, "non-profit". Your objection to contributing your knowledge to a "commercial" endeavor is strange. But it is absolutely your decision.
2. You object to volunteering as it is "...not something to take lightly." And yet you have posted on this site more than 11k times which certainly appears to be volunteering to me.
Oh well, one man's logic is another man's folly.

I am sorry you won't make the effort to improve the Standards...your expertise would have been welcomed and you would have made a positive impact.

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."

[CharlieJ]

@goboatingnow #32

I am referring to ISO 13297-2012.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CharlieJ

@goboatingnow #32

I am referring to ISO 13297-2012.

Hmm. I see no reference to the drawing you mention in 2012 or later Ones either

[CharlieJ]

@goboatingnow #38

Page 21 of the document.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CharlieJ

@goboatingnow #38



Page 21 of the document.

I’m sorry to be so dense, my copy does not go beyond page 16 ( Annex D)

[goboatingnow]

Ah I see the 2012 version has two extra annex’s , afaik they have been removed from the standard in subsequent years.

Irrespective the screen shown is not part of the actual spec

[CharlieJ]

goboatingnow#41

Irrespective the screen shown is not part of the actual spec

As I noted in #28 above.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CharlieJ

@s/v Jedi #34

I obviously will not change your mind about applying your technical knowledge to a wider audience by codifying it in the ABYC Standards. But I have to leave you with two thoughts:
1. In the USA, a non-profit organization (which the ABYC is) is just that, "non-profit". Your objection to contributing your knowledge to a "commercial" endeavor is strange. But it is absolutely your decision.
2. You object to volunteering as it is "...not something to take lightly." And yet you have posted on this site more than 11k times which certainly appears to be volunteering to me.
Oh well, one man's logic is another man's folly.

I am sorry you won't make the effort to improve the Standards...your expertise would have been welcomed and you would have made a positive impact.

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."

Okay, another attempt to explain this: you are/represent a commercial business that uses the ABYC recommendations and information. You ask me to volunteer my time and effort to make that data better even though it has only negative effect for me (even less time for family, friends, socializing). Life is too short for that, sorry. I have done my share of contributing to the advance of mankind

Here on CF and FB I can directly help others, or at least point out the regular BS so that fellow sailors aren’t getting in more trouble than they already are and I can do it whenever I have sometime for it.

[mdsilvers]

I've been researching an EFCI/ELCI issue I'm having with my Victron Isolation transformer. I'm pulling my hair out trying to find the issue.

I am trying to figure out if I am chasing real issues or one based on the setup of my installation.

I have installed the Victron 3600 isolation transformer. The output of the transformer goes to a 30m Amp .1s breaker (photo attached).

Every time I turn on the unit and flip on my control panel's power, the GFCI trips.

If I remove the jumper (picture), it does not trip and works fine.

I don't want to 'fix' a problem incorrectly. I have tried to track down a ground fault but can't seem to find one. I noticed from a photo that another boat owner - Jedi - has a similar setup. He is using 120v in and 120v out - but the jumpers were not on J33 & J21.

The manual states to have this jump 'on' for GFCIs to function correctly.

I've hit a wall on this. Any advice from others would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[bglad]

Just curious. You are using 230/240 in and 110/120 out?

Originally Posted by mdsilvers

I've been researching an EFCI/ELCI issue I'm having with my Victron Isolation transformer. I'm pulling my hair out trying to find the issue.

I am trying to figure out if I am chasing real issues or one based on the setup of my installation.

I have installed the Victron 3600 isolation transformer. The output of the transformer goes to a 30m Amp .1s breaker (photo attached).

Every time I turn on the unit and flip on my control panel's power, the GFCI trips.

If I remove the jumper (picture), it does not trip and works fine.

I don't want to 'fix' a problem incorrectly. I have tried to track down a ground fault but can't seem to find one. I noticed from a photo that another boat owner - Jedi - has a similar setup. He is using 120v in and 120v out - but the jumpers were not on J33 & J21.

The manual states to have this jump 'on' for GFCIs to function correctly.

I've hit a wall on this. Any advice from others would be appreciated.

Thanks.