Electric Circuit Diagram Software ?

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by opolily

sy_gilana Thanks for posting something I could almost understand!!

I've copied it into a document for myself. For whatever reason, electrical stuff (AC or DC) isn't apparent to me so I need this kind of help.

Questions:
what do the 6 battery symbols and fuse on the top line tell me?
I think that the line on the left side (12V) represents the power supply, but what does the line on the right (0V) signify?
What is the bilge pump line telling me? Why not a straight line like the nav lights line?

My boat is very small and existing wiring is minimal but almost 50 years old so it's time. Oh yeah ... replacing diesel with electric motor also.

This is the great thing about using standard diagrams and symbols. Though I have no idea who the author is, I can understand the circuit diagram no problem, with just a glance.

So I'll answer the questions for s/v gilana.

1. The top rung of the ladder, illustrates the power source for the ladder.

The top rung is what makes the left vertical rail 12Vdc and the right vertical rail 0 Vdc. It shows that the power supply is a battery (or represented by a single battery) switched and fused. (If the switch is opened or the fuse blows, there is no power to the ladder.)

2. The bilge pump rung shows that there is a manual switch, and an auto float switch in parallel, so that either switch is capable of operating the bilge pump independently. (The light rung also shows that the lights are in parallel, so that if one light burns out, the remainder will remain lit.)

[bletso]

Gilana,
Hadn't thought of using simple ladder logic. To simple I guess. I have an E cad program which is very old called Highwire II. DOS based but the best I have ever used. Schematics, PCB layouts, drawings and good library. I have tried several others but always went back. Still use it.

2nd vote for ladder logic

[Brewgyver]

The 0 volt line is for the negative or ground side of the D.C. Circuit (these will hopefully be all of the black wires). The bilge pump circuit includes the hand-off-auto switch and the float switch that should be included in any proper bilge pump installation. If you have an automatic pump (with an internal float or electronic liquid level switch), you would omit the separate float switch.

[Littlechay]

I run the maintenance and tech support for a couple of high latitude charter yachts and have learnt a few things from this. My background is in electronics and telecoms so whilst circuit diagrams a second nature to me I appreciate that they can be complex unfathomable things to the crew.

I have tried keeping records on things like wikis such as tiddlywiki ( I use a version of this on my own boat and carry it around on a USB stick with me so that I always have access to all the records that I have for the boat ). However this electronic approach is not for everybody.

Additionally the electronic approach should not be relied on as if the excrement hits the turbine and you are flooded and without power you can't view it. Laminate the main diagrams to keep them dry.

Therefore I have come down to a few levels of simple diagramming.
1. A power flow diagram - this is a conceptual diagram showing how everything fits together; Shorepower, generator, batteries, inverter, charger, solar, wind, etc..
2. A form of the ladder diagrams mentioned previously. You can keep these simple by starting with an upper level showing the feeds to any distribution panels etc., but leave the panels as a block such as the lighting panel but showing any breakers for fuses protecting it.
3. Ladder diagrams for each panel showing individual circuits.

The last main item of documentation that I make is a series of flow charts showing for example the start sequence for the engine and a companion fault finding flow chart for the same. This gives enough detail that the circuit can be traced through with a multi-meter (or even a light bulb) e.g turn ignition key, 12V on wire 3 of engine junction box etc.. This gives enough information to isolate a faulty starter motor or solenoid or whatever.

These diagrams also include annotated photos showing where to put the probes of the meter or other important information that is best illustrated by a photo such as the position of circuit breaker handle or a hydraulic valve.

Keep these diagrams uncluttered clear and without tiny text so that they can be read with a flashlight in a bouncing, dark, wet, engine space.

I suppose back the original question - I always start with a pencil and paper. I used to use Viso back in the day when I worked for somebody and we had licenses for the decent versions. These days I usually use LibreOffice's draw package or sometimes PowerPoint depending on what is on the computer of the vessel that I am working on. I have made up a small library of commonly used symbols but you can do everything with labeled boxes.

I use spreadsheets to make up schedules for items such as fuses. I list all the fuses, their rating, what they protect, where they are physically located and where the spares are stored. You can then filter and sort the list as required.

[DeepFrz]

The drawing above shows one reason to transfer the drawing to a computer. They are difficult to read and get more difficult as time goes on. Of course, my eyes aren't very good these days.

[Capt.Don]

Related question - what's the best way to label the actual wires? In a pinch, I've used blue-tape and a felt-marker Something more elegant would be nice.

[bobmcd625]

All good stuff! Thanks to those who have contributed. I am pretty much in the same situation as RandyGVA with my recently acquired 1975 DownEaster 38. In my case much, if not most of the 12 v system wiring was replaced before I took over but no diagrams were left on board. There is, however, the original diagram in the Owner's Manual, but so much has been changed I really have to start from scratch. I plan to add/replace devices so need to be sure where to connect them.
I like all the ideas shared here: Drawings on paper, Excel, etc. ElectricDesign looks very nice for the final portrait of the system.
It would be nice if any of you who do use Excel would be willing to share any templates or examples of lists which you have developed. The "ladder" diagram is a good start. Thanks for that SV Gilana.

[CaptNemoO2]

I've played around with the free e-cad tools at digikey.com. They're pretty good for the few things I've used then for. I'm a mechanical engineer for a living, and sometimes I get frustrated with the electrical guys at my job, so I just went and made my own schematics. They use Altium, and I have no interest in learning it.

http://www.digikey.com/en/resources/...s/design-tools


Sent from my SM-N920V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Rhwins]

Where can I obtain labels for the wires? I got lots, but on a forty year old C&C.... well maybe I can remember what I added....

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Capt.Don

Related question - what's the best way to label the actual wires? In a pinch, I've used blue-tape and a felt-marker Something more elegant would be nice.

There are many ways; which is best more difficult to answer.

The most durable would be the heatshrink sleeves that you can get for Brother and other label printers. Downside is that the printers are fairly cheap but the consumables pricey.

You can use tape and permanent marker but the tape always seems to come off. loose, or make a mess over time.

You can buy little plastic disks or rectangles that you attach with cable ties or even string. The disks are quite good if you have the space; you write the label for the local end in one colour on one side and the label for the distant end in another colour on the reverse.

You can slide "cable markers" that are plastic bands with numbers (and letters) that are very durable too. I use this one most often.

[Rhwins]

Hey, I just re-asked the same question. (Will get sh!t for that from some compass points.)

[Time2Go]

Originally Posted by Rhwins

Where can I obtain labels for the wires? I got lots, but on a forty year old C&C.... well maybe I can remember what I added....

Panduit Cable Labels
( Google for suppliers)
I have wired many video, audio and film facilities
We always label cables with what they were such as

Audio channel one in
Time code out
Serial digital in

And so on,
All cables also had a number
So, " Audio channel one in" was also cable "1"
At the other end the cable might have been,
(at another machine) "audio out 1"
This end also had the number "1" on it.
This was done so that the installer or maintenance people could
disconnect something and but it back just by looking at the cable.
The number was to indentify the cable in a master run list
and simplify the nomenclature on a wire diagram
Cheers
Neil

[Maine Sail]

I am in a bit of a different boat so to speak in that the customers I do work for often only have a very minimal understanding of electrical symbols and get very confused by the schematics or diagrams I am used to. As a result I decided to actually use product images in many of my drawings. I use a few programs such as MS Paint, Visio, photoshop or Paint.net.. Once you develop an image library it is easy to paste them, move them and then connect and label them. Customers really seem to like the drawings so my attitude is what ever helps them understand their system is good.

[sy_gilana]

Originally Posted by opolily

sy_gilana Thanks for posting something I could almost understand!!


Questions:
what do the 6 battery symbols and fuse on the top line tell me?

I think that the line on the left side (12V) represents the power supply, but what does the line on the right (0V) signify?
What is the bilge pump line telling me? Why not a straight line like the nav lights line?

My boat is very small and existing wiring is minimal but almost 50 years old so it's time. Oh yeah ... replacing diesel with electric motor also.

12 volt batteries are usually made up of 6 x 2 volt cells, the symbol with the long line next to a short line is a cell. If you had 2 batteries they would be next to each other like the nav lights.

Yes the line on the left indicates the 12v power supply, it could be a bolt with a whole heap of terminals on it, or it could be a bus, ie a bar with all the positives connected to it.

The line on the right is 0 volts, ie negative, the black wires or where they all connect.

The bilge pump can switch on by a manual switch OR a float switch, if either of them closes, the motor will run.

Some other points. In ladder it is usual to number the pos terminal just left of the left line, and the neg terminal just right of the right line, where they connect to the big lines. The actual wire number is just inside the ladder and sits on top of the "rungs" Usually the numbering schema will be like all even numbers are positive, and all odd numbers negative, so, looking at the nav light circuit, you could call the pos wire 200 and its neg partner 201, going into terminals 2200 and 3201 meaning that your positive bus is 2000 and neg 3000 etc etc....Also a good idea to write the wire colour there, next to the number.

So eventually your list will look like

2200 nav lights +
2202 Bilge pump +
...
...
3201 nav lights -
3202 Bilge pump -

(Actually its a good idea to have an automatic fused bilge pump direct to battery)

[AquaGeo]

+1 VISIO