Electric Propulsion

[Dick Harding]

Folks interested in electric propulsion may want top check out the canal boat 'DRAGONFLY' blog site. These Pen State folks traveled the big Loop and returned to the Erie Canal start point this past May, 2011--One year! An interesting site with lots of good writing and many photo's. Enjoy!!

[planfour]

multihull world no 108 13.2 mtr cat 3.8 tonne dry weight 2x10hp cruise 4 torqeedo motors .1watts 2c 14hp 2ym15 yanmar 48 volt dc generator. motor batteries 2xlifetech energy 48 volt 30ah lifepo4 speed4.5 knots one hr approx genset started at 100to115 amps to recharge batterys then 70 amps to run motors. can recharge batterys without motors going in 20 minutes. A interested read I here that a larger torqeedo motor is coming .A interesing article to read we are getting closer. I am very interested in this concept as it is the future as we had this 50 years ago funny isn,t the fuel company keep buying these good ideas and locking them up .please don,t sell them just tell all of us

[bassman1956]

This is a good thread to find.

First, I'm considering electric for my Culler Sharptown Barge sharpie, possibly the Torqeedo Travel 1003. My needs are sufficiently within the fully-charged range of that model, and it would supply the power I need. But, the Sharptown has a very narrow transom, meaning I'd need to side-mount the motor. I think I'd like a similar motor, but with the batteries etc more inboard, less hanging off the side.

Second, I was looking at a Meadowlark that had electric motors as power, with Honda gens as backup, and could hold 5 knots on gen/motors alone if needed. I really liked the idea.

[Billy Higgins]

Bassman1956 - I crewed last season on a 30 sq. metre here on Puget Sound, and we had the larger, orange Torqeedo (6 HP, I think) in a side-mount position. It was really dificult to drag it out and mount it. Heavy, awkward, and always a danger of giving it a float test. Since it was mounted to starboard, any motorsailing was out of the question on a port tack. And manuevering that boat under power was insane; we almost always docked under sail. My opinion of side-mounted motors really went down after that season.

[bassman1956]

Billy,

Thanks, good to hear the input. I do have some concerns about the off-axis mount. There's not a whole lot of room to do otherwise, though.

Attached are 2 pics from the former owner, to give a feel of how he did it. By the time I got the boat, he was passed, and the motor and mounts were gone. As you can see, he mounted it starboard aft. Also, you can see the narrow transom. Including the rudder, there isn't much room for a motor to hang.

Am still studying options.

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by bassman1956

Billy,



Am still studying options.

Check this: Electric motor on rudder

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Adamante

I am not sure I would agree with that generalization. Maybe it depends on one's individual cruising style, but I note that many cruisers will often motor when faced with adverse winds and sea state, in addition to motoring in calms. If you read the blog of the Green Motion on their passage from South Africa to Holland, they frequently ran their motors to counteract precisely those conditions.

Not aimed at anyone (my memory like sh#t ), but seems that some folks are complaining that Electric power would be insufficient for their own sailing boat - when they are mostly being used as motor boats, not as a sailing boat.

It's like complaining that the oranges are the wrong shape, when you have bananas

Also not meant as a criticism of how folks cruise (or whatever) with their boats - but have to compare like with like.


In regard to Electric HP vs Diesel HP seems pretty clear to me (and I have trouble simply spelling both of those )........I see it sort of like one of my old 1000cc (Japanese ) motorbikes - bought not for the 170MPH top speed (well, ok maybe a little bit ) but because having 160 odd BHP available meant that at 80 - 120 it accelerated like a scolded cat on PCP due to the torque available from 1000 cc and 4 cylinders of a rev happy 4 stroke engine..........and I wouldn't even be using anywhere full HP (or Revs)........

.......if I could have got a bike that simply topped out at 120 and still had that level of torque ("it's a plane, it's a train, It's a rocket to the moon" ) I would have considered it (back then in the age of being immortal probably would not have bought - nowadays? a fair chance that I would realise that the extra HP does not get me any more power in the range I want it)..........so if an electric motor can give me the torque (ooomph) I need at only 28 BHP, then it does replace a 50hp (or so?) diesel - that operates at less than max hp (around 28 hp?!).


If I have got the wrong end of the stick, tell all the number stuff to someone else

Anyway, I think we are doing a pretty good job of beating this one to death. (now where is that dead horse icon...)

You have to click on "More" (in the Smilies index)........oh the irony

[barnakiel]

There is an article on an actual conversion done in a small boat in recent GOB. Well worth reading. There is also a small electric aux Hunter now (27') - well worth looking up.

b.

[mbianka]

"Not aimed at anyone (my memory like sh#t ), but seems that some folks are complaining that Electric power would be insufficient for their own sailing boat - when they are mostly being used as motor boats, not as a sailing boat."

Dave:

BINGO! I'm often surprised while sailing along finding others motoring along with sailcovers on:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: HORSEPOWER AND SAILPOWER
Yep, electric propulsion probably won't work for them without adding an in board diesel generator. But, if you have a sailboat with a diesel that will rust out before it wears out electric propulsion might be just the thing. All I can say is it works well for me and am glad I got rid of the iron pig.

[goboatingnow]

This isn't an argument about electric propulsion ( motors) everyone recognises that electric motors are far superior to diesel. Electric motors are available in all the power sizes that boaters need.

This is an argument about power generation and storage. The magic of the IC engine is not the steam engine derived heap of iron,it's the calorific value of the fuel that's the magic.

Unless you can generate the power needed that your electric motors uses within the same timeframe that you are using it in, the result will be a compromise between stored energy availability and power propulsion availability. Ie you may not have an " engine" when you need it. This is not a compromise that the diesel user has to accept, other then having an empty fuel tank.

Most sailors will tell you that it's the instant availability of the engine that's important not necessarily the particular running time available. Not having an engine when you need it is a compromise that many boaters will not accept and hence will not accept current electric drive systems.

As non hydrocarbon based power generation improves, the argument will swing to the mechanically superior electric motors. Until then it remains a pipe dream for most.

Dave

[JJ77]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

although I haven't heard of any mega yachts successfully using diesel electric). So, where is the magic?


.

HELLO DeepFrz,

Although I do not know what you would call a mega or superyacht I think this one fits the BILL for most of us;

Ecolution-84

Regards,
JJ

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Unless you can generate the power needed that your electric motors uses within the same timeframe that you are using it in, the result will be a compromise between stored energy availability and power propulsion availability. Ie you may not have an " engine" when you need it. This is not a compromise that the diesel user has to accept, other then having an empty fuel tank.

Most sailors will tell you that it's the instant availability of the engine that's important not necessarily the particular running time available. Not having an engine when you need it is a compromise that many boaters will not accept and hence will not accept current electric drive systems.

I can't say I disagree with any of your post - including the excert above.

But , I don't see that the limitations you (accurately) describe as being a fundamental problem for all.

IMO a simple answer (until technology catches up) is having a boat that does not require power 24/7 on passage, I dunno maybe something with sails on it .

..........I am sure your experiance goes back before things like GPS - they have changed the nature of navigation. In the days of DR a Skipper had no choice but to be a bit conservative on what he approaches and when and the course set.........how I see that relating to Electric Power is simply accepting that you are kinda stepping back in time , so that voyages are planned more conservatively and around the possibility of no power on demand - with the intention of making sure not somewhere that becomes a major problem. Also restricting use to entering ports etc would seem sensible.

Main downside I can see to all that is passage times.....but depending on boat use / area that might only be a rare problem.........or even just part of the fun!/ challenge.

[LauderBoy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Most sailors will tell you that it's the instant availability of the engine that's important not necessarily the particular running time available. Not having an engine when you need it is a compromise that many boaters will not accept and hence will not accept current electric drive systems.

Well, to be fair electric drives are more "instantly available" than a diesel and likely much more likely to be reliable. It's just a matter of lack of range and instant recharge.

There's a lot less that can go wrong with an electric drive system. No dirty fuel to clog up a line or filter, no intake to get clogged, no impeller to disintegrate, etc etc etc. You don't have to turn a key to "fire up the iron sail". If you were sailing the drive was already probably on in regen mode so you'll have thrust as fast as you can push your throttle forward.

Here's hoping that battery and solar tech improves a lot over the next decade and starts giving us more range. I just wonder what the magic range number will be for more and more people to pick it up.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by LauderBoy

I just wonder what the magic range number will be for more and more people to pick it up.

Yeah. there will be a magic number.

FWIW I will likely be going electric next year........on a Moped / Scooter It will work for me as on a small island and my commute is only a few miles and on the flat, mostly in traffic with a 30 MPH speed limit. So range (80 - 100 miles? and top speed (30 mph?) not an issue (I forget the exact specs ). In any event, on that model the battery easily detaches and can be re-charged indoors (at home or work - free ) - no long cable to plug in

My reason for mentioning it being that how the bike is used is as much a factor as the technology in making it a viable choice for me. It won't suit everyone's needs - but it only needs to fit with my needs.

[nwdiver]

Originally Posted by JJ77

HELLO DeepFrz,

Although I do not know what you would call a mega or superyacht I think this one fits the BILL for most of us;

Ecolution-84

Regards,
JJ

Mega Yachts want to move at mega speeds for periods of time once in awhile crossing an Ocean. Diesel Electric is used by many freighters that move at a more relaxed pace and keep moving all the time, with 2 electric motors and 3 diesel generators to drive them lets them refit a generator while moving, days in port are dollars lost. Also the generators at run a constant RPM so fuel calculations and the maintenance schedule is easy to set up.