Electrical current when circuit is off

[crayiii]

I'm sitting in our anchorage listening to the wind howl outside and decide to turn the lights off so I can see the anchor lights of the other boats.

I noticed a dim pulsating red light from our DC panel. It was the LED indicator lights for the upper and lower spreader lights. They were both pulsating dimly almost, it would seem, matching the wind gusts.

I then turned off the anchor light and the indicator LED did the same. So did the tricolor but to less of an extent.

Knowing I wouldn't be able to sleep, I removed the spreader light switches and put the multimeter on it. It was reading millivolts but negative. This was with everything on the mast turned off.

Obviously, if I turned that circuit on, it read as expected.

Also, if I turn on anything on the mast in addition to the anchor light (tricolor), the LEDs for the spreader lights don't glow and flicker any more.

I'm stumped on this. Is it possible that there is a static buildup from the wind that is inducing this current?

What the heck else should I be checking to figure this out?

[Josh.]

Induction caused by a nearby AC power source is my best guess, I'd try cutting the shore power and any inverters and seeing if it stops.
Doesn't explain the pulsing unless its a wiring loom moving or something grounding out as the boat moves.

If be very suprised if wind was generating a charge, the mast and rig should all be grounded.

[crayiii]

We're at anchor with no AC source energized. We are fairly close to a couple US military bases though.

[phorvati]

Do you have a wind generator?


" It was reading millivolts but negative." Its an AC signal so using multimeter is useless. You can have a 100V spike for few milliseconds and your DMM would read < volt. Because it ingrates over time and it gives you RMS equivalent value. That's where scope comes in handy.

[crayiii]

Yes, we have two d400 wind generators

[crayiii]

After isolating the wind turbines, the glowing LEDs are still present.

I've done a bit of research and it seems others have had similar issues with this Scheiber panel and most of the time it is chalked up to RF interference. I don't know, we'll see when we move anchorages next.

[phorvati]

Stop the wind generators, physically tie the blades and repeat. You mentioned something about matching the wind gusts.

try to figure out the nature/source of interference signal.

1. Locally generated noise (electronic gadgets, toys, appliances, obviously they need to be ON to generate the flicker)

2. external and induced/coupled onto your wiring in such a way to produce flicker.

some thoughts

HF/SSB/VHF how familiar are you with your counterpoise/battery ground/lightning ground etc, is your ballast lead external or internal?

[team karst]

My SSB blinks the LED anchor light.
In your case, its possible a high powered pulsed radar could do the same.
OR, do you have a satellite tracker or AIS enabled?

If they blink together at 4 to 5 second interval, I'd be thinking airport surveillance radar.

[crayiii]

It definitely doesn't look like random flickering. It's more of a pulse where they (at the same time) slowly start to Brighten but still very dim then ramp back to dim in a fairly constant rhythm.

I've isolated all charging sources including physically stopping the wind turbines and it had no effect. I unplugged the ground wire at the mast base used by the tri and spreader lights and it stops so this is telling me that it's coming from the mast and not the panel side of things (I think).

I do know there is a high frequency radar installation right here where I am as well as a bunch of radio towers on shore so maybe that's it.

It only started doing it when we dropped anchor here.

I've read that the Scheiber panels are susceptible to RF interference so maybe that's it? I'm thinking about going to an electronics store tomorrow to see if I can find a ferrite core to wrap around the ground wire.

[Boatwright]

It takes an amazingly small amount of juice to get an LED to emit light. Lately there have been a number of "zero energy" perpetual motion cranks on YouTube with coils of wire hooked up to a glowing LED, thereby proving that you can turn water into gasoline. Being a firm believer in the Second Law of Thermodynamics (there's no such thing as free lunch), I've wondered if the coils of wire aren't picking up nearby radio or TV broadcast antenna emissions.

Don't underestimate this. When I was kid many, many years ago my 50' copper wire antenna with a crystal set receiver yielded a good signal, loud enough to hear through my carbon headphones -- no outside electricity needed. I vote for the nearby military activity.

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by Boatwright

It takes an amazingly small amount of juice to get an LED to emit light. Lately there have been a number of "zero energy" perpetual motion cranks on YouTube with coils of wire hooked up to a glowing LED, thereby proving that you can turn water into gasoline. Being a firm believer in the Second Law of Thermodynamics (there's no such thing as free lunch), I've wondered if the coils of wire aren't picking up nearby radio or TV broadcast antenna emissions.

Don't underestimate this. When I was kid many, many years ago my 50' copper wire antenna with a crystal set receiver yielded a good signal, loud enough to hear through my carbon headphones -- no outside electricity needed. I vote for the nearby military activity.

Yeah, these tiny LEDs are on the end of a 70 foot wire going straight up.

[Popcorn]

I think your whole rig and electrical componenets absorb energy. Which may be from transmission towers near by, radar near or on other boats, military installations, near by dock boats and many others. In San Diego when a nuclear air craft carrier went by shelter island, the club bar tv went crazy and was not clear. I can't imagine what it was doing to our bodies?
When I changed my ballast on my flourescent lamp fixture, I walked a ways away causing my hand to light the bulb, and the more I walked on the carpet the more energy was transfered to the bulb. Hold your cell phone or transistor radio next to your computer or display and see what happens, impressive. The "Blue" light coming from the display will back you off a bit, when knowing what it can do to your eyes.
So there are multiple ways energy can be transfered to Led's or areas around electrical equipment and radios. I think best search for that current would be that either moving to another location to test on board electronics or areas around your boat or shut everything down and disconnect battery terminals (not just shut off their respective switches)may prove informative.
Good luck to find your power source.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Boatwright

It takes an amazingly small amount of juice to get an LED to emit light. Lately there have been a number of "zero energy" perpetual motion cranks on YouTube with coils of wire hooked up to a glowing LED, thereby proving that you can turn water into gasoline. Being a firm believer in the Second Law of Thermodynamics (there's no such thing as free lunch), I've wondered if the coils of wire aren't picking up nearby radio or TV broadcast antenna emissions.

Don't underestimate this. When I was kid many, many years ago my 50' copper wire antenna with a crystal set receiver yielded a good signal, loud enough to hear through my carbon headphones -- no outside electricity needed. I vote for the nearby military activity.

To take that one further. We left our son in our van with a CB turned off. We came back and he said it was receiving. We told him no way. It made a fool out of us. A shop close by, illicitly selling RF amplifiers, was causing a tank circuit in the radio to pick up their transmission as clear as day. LEDs take little to light them.

[senormechanico]

Back in the '60's when I was in the US Navy and working in the Pearl Harbor Hobby Shop, we could always tell when the USS Enterprise came into dock. Even though the boat was tied up nearly a half mile from the hobby shop, the radar caused the PA system to make a zzzZZZzzz sound each time their radar antenna scanned past us.
Turning off the PA system made no difference, and this was in a completely metal building.

[crayiii]

We moved about 30 miles to a new Anchorage yesterday. The panel and all the lights are now working as they should.