Equalize?

[undercutter]

Originally Posted by rom

It may be true but is the exact opposite of what Victron suggest, see my previous message. Who says that ?

Agreed, and that I experienced myself. There are several ways to connect batteries in parallel. The one usually advertised here is not the best.

Trojan indicates that more frequent equalization will be required when batteries are operated in the 50-85% range as they do not see an absorption charge or finish charge which reduces stratification and sulfation. Trojan also recommends that batteries that are charged once a week or more should not be left on a float charge although I am not sure if this is practical in a live aboard situation.


I also find it strange that Trojan recommends a finish charge of between 1-3% - C at a voltage of up to 2.7V per cell which is the same as equalization voltage. Without this finish current it is obvious that none of us are fully charging our batteries with our high end 3 stage chargers which do not actually output the required voltage to do the job.



This is especially true when we have loads on at the same time that we are charging our batteries. I see a definite voltage drop from the charger output to the main shunt or battery terminals. Also, with even a minimal load, the voltages never reach the prescribed levels required to force sufficient charge into the batteries. When has anybody seen their charger outputting over 14.8V in any stage of the charging cycle to finish the job?

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Again.. John shows the fact that he has never actually lived aboard or off grid.

Pretty strong statement "ALL EQUALIZING SHOULD BE DONE". Who says? We equalized on solar every 20 days for almost 3 years. Why would it be any different on solar power than shore power. Please enlighten me. Do the batteries care where the amps are coming from?

If the batteries have been sitting, not used and floated on solar for weeks. Then please tell me how equalizing with shore power is any different than on solar.

Whoa. Let's not take potshots at John. He has great information that he regularly contributes that I have found to be very practical. Most importantly, I don't believe he has ever given dangerous or wrong info. (that to me is the worst, you find dangerous info in post that doesn't get removed, like where white wires are hot and black are neutral on US AC wires. That can get you killed.) Maybe opinions differ.

Your post could have been the same without the first sentence.

I read this to be, if you have shore power, do the equalization with that as it is constant and reliable. If you absolutely need to do it without shore power, and it is a 100% sunny day, no cloud cover, probably ok.

But John also knows that I am in NE, it's Oct, days are short, cloud cover is high and I am bringing my boat in to a dock for the winter. If it was mid july and I was on a mooring, maybe use the solar, but it will take me hours to change out the oil and winterize once I get the boat to the dock, so I might as take his recommendation as well and use shore power.

[john61ct]

The example thread demonstrated

Not just more consistent and reliable

It can be a big project since each unit in the pack should be done independently.

Not just hours but days with a big bank.

With shore power can keep going after you'd have to quit with solar, sun going down would interrupt things.

Plus all the loads that need to keep running in the meantime.

As I very clearly stated, there is the specified ideal, and then for **some**, compromises are required.

Do what needs must for your situation.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

Not wanting to get in the middle but why cant you use solar to equalize?

You can but it’s difficult to say the least, first you need to be fully, 100% charged, which is tough by Solar alone, because almost always to get to 100% fully charged takes longer than you have Solar, but let’s say you get there, then the Solar day is over, so you need to disconnect the batteries and hope for a good Solar day tomorrow, then hopefully there is enough Solar to quickly bring the voltage up to equalization voltage early enough so that you can hold it for the required equalization interval, my batteries that’s 5.5 hours, just a little longer than the average Solar day, so that’s going to be tough, because first you have to get the bank to in my case 15.5 V and hold for 5.5 hours.

I’d say shore power is best, however a Honda can certainly suffice. It can be done from an alternator too of course but Balmar recommends against it.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Whoa. Let's not take potshots at John. He has great information that he regularly contributes that I have found to be very practical. Most importantly, I don't believe he has ever given dangerous or wrong info. (that to me is the worst, you find dangerous info in post that doesn't get removed, like where white wires are hot and black are neutral on US AC wires. That can get you killed.) Maybe opinions differ.

Opinions definately differ. It was no potshot, I just don't find him "a great source of information". I also have serious doubts about his experience or qualifications. While I can think of no post off the top of my head where he has posted dangerous information. I certainly can link to posts where his information was just plain wrong.

In any case, on a forum like this, I think its important to understand that just because people talk/post like experts, doesn't mean they are. Or that the information they provide is correct/useful. Yes, that also goes for my posts as well. However, I will gladly post my background and details if asked. Google can also be a valuable resource in vetting.

However, its up to you how you want to equalize. In your case, doing it on the solar would not be a big deal as you are not a liveaboard constantly cycling your batteries and trying to keep ahead of usage. Your batteries should technically be %100 when you arrive at the boat after days of it sitting unused (assuming very light loads during non-use). Ifs its a sunny day, then your 550W panels should be able to equalize. My point is equalizing at a dock is not a requirement, or even possible for many cruisers. Hell we haven't been to a dock in over 24 months.

However, if you think it would be easier to equalize on the dock, then go for it. It certainly makes sense if you already have a plan to head there!

Unfortunately I was not able to find a definative answer on whether the default setting for the Victron is to auto equalize (lots of conflicting information). You can definately check this setting via Bluetooth though. If its turned on, then the controllers have been doing it on the set time cycle (assuming enough sun).

[rom]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Unfortunately I was not able to find a definative answer on whether the default setting for the Victron is to auto equalize (lots of conflicting information). You can definately check this setting via Bluetooth though. If its turned on, then the controllers have been doing it on the set time cycle (assuming enough sun).

page 10 of the bluesolar ,"Automatic equalization is default set to ‘OFF’"
but I understand you have the smartsolar with bluetooth, so could be different.
Well, just checked, same for smartsolar. But that was easy to find so I suspect you found otherwise some place else ?

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by rom

page 10 of the bluesolar ,"Automatic equalization is default set to ‘OFF’"
but I understand you have the smartsolar with bluetooth, so could be different.
Well, just checked, same for smartsolar. But that was easy to find so I suspect you found otherwise some place else ?

Yes.. I found that too.. but I also found some users (in forums) stating it was on for them. I'm pretty sure its actually OFF by default. Its best the OP actually checks that setting via Bluetooth.

I know that some venders actually power up the units and perform a firmware upgrade for customers. Some also change settings to values they are feel are more appropriate (very common to see them bump up the absorbtion time). Its not out of the realm of possibility they change the auto equalize setting as well.

Again, best to manually check it. I certainly wouldn't want to be auto equalizing if I wasn't aboard the boat.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Opinions definately differ. It was no potshot, I just don't find him "a great source of information". I also have serious doubts about his experience or qualifications. While I can think of no post off the top of my head where he has posted dangerous information. I certainly can link to posts where his information was just plain wrong. ....

+1

John61ct has been repeatedly asked to put information on his profile.

Who is he, has he got a boat, has he ever done half of what he talks about - like a 20 hour C20 test where he clearly demonstrated that he had never done one by his ignorant comments.

Yes he does provide some useful information, but not in a from that is clear and well written. With each of his short-hand, bad grammar, and confusing posts, every time he post his credibility goes down for me. Check out his 50 posts a day - if he wasn't posting this would be a better Forum, but unfortunately there is nothing he is doing that is against Forum rules - and believed me I have tried.

[john61ct]

And since many mfg spec'd protocols call for 8 or even 12 hours, when an older worn bank may never be reaching endAmps.

I have a hard time seeing how that could reliably be accommodated via anything but shore power, unless using a complex DCDC setup.

And I certainly would not think it worth running even a small genset that long.

[nebster]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Whoa. Let's not take potshots at John. He has great information that he regularly contributes that I have found to be very practical. Most importantly, I don't believe he has ever given dangerous or wrong info. (that to me is the worst, you find dangerous info in post that doesn't get removed, like where white wires are hot and black are neutral on US AC wires. That can get you killed.) Maybe opinions differ.

Opinions certainly differ.

He has definitely posted lots of wrong things, and some of those can be construed as "dangerous" -- for one's wallet or for the long-term health and stability of a system.

Mixed in with those wrong things are right things, of course. Just enough of them to make it seem like he should be trusted on everything if one is trying to learn for the first time.

He has gradually reached out to almost every single public web forum where large batteries are a point of discussion and infiltrated those, too. Dozens and dozens of them.

If he were right all the time, or right most of the time and contrite when he is corrected by others with more experience, or simply right some of the time and not so prone to broad over-reach in his posts, he could be kind of a battery hero of the internet. Sadly, he is none of these.

Be very careful with information from this person.