Fault Giandel Inverter 3000W/6000W

[coopec43]

About a year ago I installed a Giandel 3000W/6000W Inverter and it was working fine. Then stupidly I installed a 1/2/Both switch so I could run it off either battery bank (Yes I know....)

When using the wet/dry vacuum to suck some water out of the bilge things went wrong and it appears I destroyed a cell in one of the AGM batteries in the starter bank and the inverter no longer works.

I'm going to try to get it going again on Tuesday. I've removed the 1/2/Both switch and now plan to look at the wiring to see if that is still intact (i.e. not melted) I think it must be the wiring as the Giandel manufacturer seems to have protected it from almost everything that could go wrong. (See picture below)

Is there something obvious that I should look at first? (I won't pull anything to bits so I won't electrocute myself)

[coopec43]

I'm hoping there's some experts here.

I tried my Giandel inverter this morning on my workbench. I ran it off a 24V 40A Battery charger. But I'm not too sure how to earth the chassis of the inverter.

I decided in normal use the the negative terminal of the battery would be earthed so I connected the chassis earth to the negative alligator clip of the battery charger.

I plugged a 240V electric drill (switched on) into the inverter and switched battery charge on then switched the inverter on.

The light on the inverter turned green and away went the drill (spinning normally). I switched the drill off then the green light on the inverter went off and the red light came on.

Can anyone explain what is happening?

[Wotname]

I dunno what sort of battery charger you are using but unless it has a "power supply" function, it isn't ideal to connect directly it to you inverter.

You should connect the +ve & -ve inputs of the inverter to a 24V battery and then connect the battery charger to the battery.

Plug the drill or other small 240V AC load into the power sockets of the inverter. If the drill (or whatever) works, all is good with the inverter.

The inverter manual should tell you what the red light indicates but at a guess, it might be telling you the input voltage (i.e. 24V nominal) is out of whack.

Post some details of the battery charger and we might be able to tell you more.

[coopec43]

Thank heavens for guys like you with your expertise.

I'll be back at the yacht tomorrow so I'll hook it up to my X2 AGM batteries which are being solar charged by a Victron MPPT Controlleri. (Current voltage is slightly over 25V)

In the meantime:


https://manuals.plus/giandel/dc-to-a...ure_guidelines (ZOOM OUT TO 50%)


OWNER'S MANUAL
https://manuals.plus/giandel/dc-to-a...nverter-manual

[CaptainRivet]

good news seems that your Giandel is fine. If you destroyed a cell, the starter cannot deliver more then 8V which is too low for the inverter to shut on.
its 24V system and inverter?
After reconnecting (precharge via an resistor otherwise the spark can destroy the inverter or other devices like MPPT) to the house bank. For testing use some small loads preferable restrictive like a lamp or a charger for the phone etc.
Also have a multimeter/amp clamp to hand to measure voltages and current.
how much AH do you have? How much watt does the hoover have...sucking water means it needed to work hard= a lot amps...

That 3000W Giandel is a high frequency power hog...you need some serious AH bank in AGM or you just use half of its power otherwise the next AGM is soon gone and maybe the inverter too.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

good news seems that your Giandel is fine. If you destroyed a cell, the starter cannot deliver more then 8V which is too low for the inverter to shut on.
its 24V system and inverter?
After reconnecting (precharge via an resistor otherwise the spark can destroy the inverter or other devices like MPPT) to the house bank. For testing use some small loads preferable restrictive like a lamp or a charger for the phone etc.
Also have a multimeter/amp clamp to hand to measure voltages and current.
how much AH do you have? How much watt does the hoover have...sucking water means it needed to work hard= a lot amps...

That 3000W Giandel is a high frequency power hog...you need some serious AH bank in AGM or you just use half of its power otherwise the next AGM is soon gone and maybe the inverter too.

Yes it is a 24V 220V 3000W/6000W

The input voltage is around 27V. The two AGM batteries are good and 135AH each.

Apparently the most common problem with inverters is damage done to "Inverter Bridge" caused by high/low voltage or high/low current. (I presume "Inverter Bridge" is the "Bridge Rectifier")

But if that was damaged how could it run the drill?

I've just come across this article which I'll look at later today. Maybe it will point me in the right direction.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/commo...-adegoke-itil-

Any advice will be appreciated.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Yes it is a 24V 220V 3000W/6000W

The input voltage is around 27V. The two AGM batteries are good and 135AH each.

Apparently the most common problem with inverters is damage done to "Inverter Bridge" caused by high/low voltage or high/low current. (I presume "Inverter Bridge" is the "Bridge Rectifier")

But if that was damaged how could it run the drill?

I've just come across this article which I'll look at later today. Maybe it will point me in the right direction.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/commo...-adegoke-itil-

Any advice will be appreciated.

2x 12V 135AH AGM is 24V 135AH for a 3000w inverter is very tight and if you frequently use close to 3000W they will be destroyed very soon.
3000W at 27V is 110A for a 135AH AGM. 135AH AGM can deliver healthy 40-60A max. So to power this inverter the bare minimum is 4x 12V 135AH AGM , better go right away lithium.
A drill is motor= surge load that can be very high current but the Giandel should have been able to handle it without damage.

For test connect it and use small loads like a charger or 700W bread baking machine. Then we see what ist does.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

2x 12V 135AH AGM is 24V 135AH for a 3000w inverter is very tight and if you frequently use close to 3000W they will be destroyed very soon.
3000W at 27V is 110A for a 135AH AGM. 135AH AGM can deliver healthy 40-60A max. So to power this inverter the bare minimum is 4x 12V 135AH AGM , better go right away lithium.
A drill is motor= surge load that can be very high current but the Giandel should have been able to handle it without damage.

For test connect it and use small loads like a charger or 700W bread baking machine. Then we see what ist does.

Thank you for your help.


I have a few other things on my plate at the moment so I sent off an email to their help center giving details of the problem. If I get a response in the next few days I will upload it to the forum thread

[coopec43]

I was working on the yacht today and decided to make a short video to try to sort out the problem with the inverter.

I tried it with a small soldering iron first.
The inverter kept switching ON/OFF (Red and Green lights alternating and high pitched beep) The soldering iron was heating up.

For the second test I checked the voltage of the inverter output (Multi-meter leads in 3 pin plug output)
When the inverter was switched on (Green light on) the multi-meter recorded up to 241V

Here is a video clip. I would appreciate your advice.


Video link
https://youtube.com/shorts/pU-vfeOaQwc

[Wotname]

In order to make a meaningful analysis, you need to record the DC voltage at the input of the inverter. Note - not the DC voltage at the battery terminals.

Measure the DC voltage at the inverter input with the soldering iron unplugged and then again while the soldering iron is heating up.

Have you measured the AC voltage when the soldering iron is heating up?

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Wotname

In order to make a meaningful analysis, you need to record the DC voltage at the input of the inverter. Note - not the DC voltage at the battery terminals.

Measure the DC voltage at the inverter input with the soldering iron unplugged and then again while the soldering iron is heating up.

Have you measured the AC voltage when the soldering iron is heating up?

I can say the input voltage at the inverter input terminals is slightly over 27V (I wondered whether that was too high but decided it wasn't)

I'll be at the yacht again tomorrow so I'll do the other tests then

Thanks


https://www.giandel.com/pages/faqs


"Soft Start tech and Isolated Input/Output design and Full Safety protections: over voltage, overload, over-current, under-voltage, overheating, short circuit protection"

https://www.giandel.com.au/products/...usa-transistor

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Wotname

In order to make a meaningful analysis, you need to record the DC voltage at the input of the inverter. Note - not the DC voltage at the battery terminals.

Measure the DC voltage at the inverter input with the soldering iron unplugged and then again while the soldering iron is heating up.

Have you measured the AC voltage when the soldering iron is heating up?

The input voltage at the inverter is 27.2V

The inverter switches "ON" (green light) for up to 4 seconds (but normally about 2 seconds) then "OFF" (red light) for 1-2 seconds.

When I had the soldering iron plugged in the other outlets were heading up to 240V (sometime reaching it)

I am beginning to think these cheap Chinese inverters are disposable items. If they stuff up buy a new one at around $300 because to have one repaired would cost you more.

I don't blame the inverter for failing as I blame myself for accidentally pushing the inverter over the limits

[Wotname]

Yep, it is cactus!

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Yep, it is cactus!

Yes I agree it is stuffed!

What happens to an inverter if the power draw on a motor exceeds the designed peak of the inverter?

I'm now looking for a replacement on AliExpress and came across this:

Note: If the inverter used on inductive loads "compressors, motors, water pumps, and air conditioners"( which instant starting power is much larger than rated power), please ensure that at least the rated power of the appliances multiply 3-5 times DOESN'T exceed the rated power of inverter.
For example, 150W refrigerators, please choose 800w rated power inverter at least.
-8000W inverter , Peak Power : 8000W Rated Power: 1300W
-6000W inverter , Peak Power : 6000W Rated Power: 1000W
-4000W inverter , Peak Power : 4000W Rated Power: 800W
-3000W inverter , Peak Power : 3000W Rated Power: 500W


I've made a mental note not to power motor driven devices off the inverter. But I need a 2000W inverter for my Induction hob so I'm going for a 8000W peak (Yes I know it is an overkill) Do you reckon this is worth a punt? They say they have sold 1890 (I must read the reviews)

Have I pressed the right buttons because $139 looks incredibly cheap? (about a third of the normal price) I want a 24V/240V Pure Sine Wave 8000W inverter

Where have I gone wrong?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...d=DK78vFDAlomf

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Yes I agree it is stuffed!

What happens to an inverter if the power draw on a motor exceeds the designed peak of the inverter?

I'm now looking for a replacement on AliExpress and came across this:

Note: If the inverter used on inductive loads "compressors, motors, water pumps, and air conditioners"( which instant starting power is much larger than rated power), please ensure that at least the rated power of the appliances multiply 3-5 times DOESN'T exceed the rated power of inverter.
For example, 150W refrigerators, please choose 800w rated power inverter at least.
-8000W inverter , Peak Power : 8000W Rated Power: 1300W
-6000W inverter , Peak Power : 6000W Rated Power: 1000W
-4000W inverter , Peak Power : 4000W Rated Power: 800W
-3000W inverter , Peak Power : 3000W Rated Power: 500W


I've made a mental note not to power motor driven devices off the inverter. But I need a 2000W inverter for my Induction hob so I'm going for a 8000W (peak) Do you reckon this is worth a punt? They say they have sold 1890 (I must read the reviews)

Have I pressed the right buttons because $139 looks incredibly cheap? (about a third of the normal price) I want a 24V/240V Pure Sine Wave 8000W inverter

Where have I gone wrong?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004261202008.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.3 .33a274576qIbUX&algo_pvid=942b9226-9817-460e-8523-142cc7f8d773&algo_exp_id=942b9226-9817-460e-8523-142cc7f8d773-1&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000029884189647 %22%7D&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21AUD%21130.95%2178.57%21%2 1%21%21%21%40211bf14716761819926581113d06c8%211200 0029884189647%21sea%21AU%212183246511&curPageLogUi d=DK78vFDAlomf

Have you not realised that if it is so cheap it is most likely not so good?
China as a country has effectively declared and waged economic war on Australia, join the campaign to not provide them with the funds to continue this activity and buy a quality product from a source that shares our values.